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jack065
Jun 22nd 2009, 08:23 AM
While looking at the hives this morning, I heard a queen piping and another one quacking in the same hive. Any advise as to what to do or look for when I go in to inspect. Should I get ready to split or did they already swarm? It is a stong colony with 3 supers. Any advise would be greatly appreciated!

Jack

Iddee
Jun 22nd 2009, 10:08 AM
If you heard two piping, there will soon be only one. They may swarm, they may kill all but one queen. You can split if you can find a queen, or you can let nature take it's course. The sooner you do something, the better, since you can't read their time frame. It may already be too late.

jack065
Jun 22nd 2009, 12:06 PM
Thanks Iddee,

They swarmed about an hour ago...........small cluster on a shorter tree. I'm setting up now to try to hive this little swarm. It's a little bigger than a softball. I'm getting a deep together and will put in 3 drawn frames and 7 empty frames with just foundation. I'm going to cut the branch and set on the open hive on top of the 10 frames and let them crawn down in. Does that sound feisable?

Thanks again,

Jack

Iddee
Jun 22nd 2009, 12:38 PM
A 5 frame nuc box would be better for that size swarm, but you gotta go with what you have. If you don't have the SHB there yet, it should work fine... FEED HEAVILY, but watch for robbing.

jack065
Jun 22nd 2009, 02:20 PM
Hello Iddee,

The swarm dissipated....not sure what to think but I lost it. The colony from which the swarm came is without eggs and larva but the piping queen is still piping, so I'm going to leave it alone for a 10 days and then check back to see if it is queen right.
I grabbed a frame from the swarm colony that has a several closed queen cell and moved one over to a split without a queen. I will check on that colony in about 14 days to see if that one is queen right as well. I also grabbed a frame of eggs,larva and capped brood ( from a booming nuc) and moved that into the queenless split hoping that something works. I just hope that piping queen gets mated and keeps the colony alive and productive. Any more words of wisdom?
I almost called you this morning but thought I would post instead.

I appreciate your help.

Jack

Iddee
Jun 22nd 2009, 02:51 PM
Sounds like you have it under control. Keep an eye on them and keep us updated. A queen can begin laying anywhere from 3 days to 20 days after emerging. After that, it is very doubtful.

jack065
Jul 10th 2009, 11:25 AM
Well, the piping queen colony is queen right. I just checked on Tuesday and found eggs(one per cell) on the middle frame of the bottom deep. :D
The colony is hot though and got loud and aggressive while being inspected. I closed it up quick once I found the eggs. Hope I did not disturb the colony to much. Would they (workers) kill a new queen after she started laying because of the inspection?
I'm thrilled that they replaced the queen. Her brood pattern was scattered compared to my new nucs.

I'll check the split on Sunday to see if it also is queen right. If not, I'll probably dump the bees at a distance (if they are laying workers) and do a combine.

Thanks again,

Jack

Iddee
Jul 10th 2009, 04:28 PM
You shouldn't have any problems from the inspection. Her pattern will likely improve with practice.

tecumseh
Jul 10th 2009, 06:29 PM
jack writes:
They swarmed about an hour ago...........small cluster on a shorter tree. I'm setting up now to try to hive this little swarm. It's a little bigger than a softball.

tecumseh:
not being absolutely certain as to the hive's original size???? this would sound to be more like an afterswarm. afterswarms can quite often times contain virgin queens and are therefore are not so easy to capture.

jack then writes;
I will check on that colony in about 14 days to see if that one is queen right as well.

tecumseh:
this might be a tight time line since you do not know the exact age of cells transfered to the nuc. most times (when I do this) I just check on some shorter time cycle first for population and secondly for stores (primary requirements for anything that may follow)... then give adequate time for mating and then laying.

then jack writes:
The colony is hot though and got loud and aggressive while being inspected. I closed it up quick once I found the eggs. Hope I did not disturb the colony to much. Would they (workers) kill a new queen after she started laying because of the inspection?

tecumseh:
if the hive did swarm and then contiued to issue afterswarms intially the population left is older bees and therefore a bit more hostile. as brood emerges the age demograpics of the hive shifts pretty quickly. and yes manipulating any hive that finds itself on the margin of the queenless/queen right condition has the potential to murder a perfectly adequate queen when manipulated. my stated rule is to go softly until an acceptable 'larva' patch appears in the box.

good luck...

jack065
Jul 28th 2009, 05:32 AM
final update...

I took your advice Tecumseh and waited a little longer before I inspected the queenless split. I let it go an extra week and then took a look. I found eggs (singles in the center of the cells) on one side of the middle frame in the bottom deep. :D HURRAY! It actually worked this time. I'm both surprised and thrilled after losing two other colonies to laying workers. Thanks again ALLfor the advice. I'm glad I waited before I checked on the split.

Hope you all have a great summer!

Jack

tecumseh
Jul 28th 2009, 06:12 AM
excellent.... most time it does little good to try and hurry along the bee's bioliogy.

sometime of course checking for queen right condition need to take place on a certain schedule. another 'sign' clearly noticable in a hive that will shortly have a laying queen is the workers (just prior to the new queen beginning to lay) will polish cells (typically circular in shape) in an area within the central brood area. the area will have a noticable low sheen but even more noticable is the 'absolute' lack of bees on the area... it is almost like the bees have posted a 'wet floor/no trespassing sign' and the workers don't really wish to tread on the area.

and the best to you and yours...

G3farms
Jul 28th 2009, 09:17 AM
Now all you have to do is get them through the winter. Seems like a never ending worry cycle.

Glad things got back on track for you.

G3

riverrat
Jul 28th 2009, 09:28 PM
I got to say anyone that hears a queen piping is luck since I am hard of hearing I have never got the chance to hear such sounds. I envy all that get that opertunity

G3farms
Jul 29th 2009, 08:07 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBlI1sgczVY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_KihPy- ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_KihPy-s98&feature=related)

in the second video it is faint but distinct, sounds like a dirt dauber building a nest.

G3

tecumseh
Jul 31st 2009, 04:11 AM
a queen's piping sounds a bit like a 'peep' to me.

an odd detail of a queen's piping is it has the effect of freezing for a split instant the worker bees directly around the queen.