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dogsoldier13
Jul 7th 2009, 10:38 AM
i have lost 2 hives this week due to moths,the same thing happened last year,i still have one left,just like last year,in 5 days these devils almost cleaned me out

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/dogsoldier13_photos/beesnflowerers026.jpg
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/dogsoldier13_photos/beesnflowerers034.jpg
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/dogsoldier13_photos/beesnflowerers029.jpg


this a problem i need to whip if im going to continue keeping bees,when this happened last year, i moved my hives to a full sun location hoping to avoid this problem,but now its worse,i dont like using poison but it may be the only way,the cost of replacing bees and hives is beginning to discourage me,disenchanted may be a better word,to pile on the expense of poison and treatments makes me shudder,please advise...j.d. :cry:

BjornBee
Jul 7th 2009, 11:34 AM
First thing, wax moths did not kill your hive. Something allowed your hive to decrease in numbers to the point they could not defend all the comb, to which many times a colony will abscond.

Many times, it is a situation where the colony swarmed, the hive started crashing from a bad/unmated queen, and there are far less bees trying to protect the comb.

The first week of July should not be a problem for bees to defend the hive. They are either booming with supers on, hives that have bees packed due to taking the supers off, or hives that are building towards a larger colony size.

Wax moths are the end result of a sequence of other happenings. There could be many cicumstances. But none of them involve a colony being taken over and killed by wax moths alone.
Take this the right way....but your missing something along the way.

dogsoldier13
Jul 7th 2009, 11:42 AM
10/4

Iddee
Jul 7th 2009, 12:47 PM
Reduce your hives down to how ever many frames the bees can cover. The moths are only attacking the frames that aren't covered with bees. Get some BT and spray all frames. If you can't find it there, I have some. Come get it.

beewildered
Jul 7th 2009, 11:56 PM
Have to go with the other guy's on this, I've not had to deal with this but I've read freezing the frames will kill the larvae. As Iddee say's reduce the hives down, smoke them a few times a day to keep them on alert. Hopefully that'll help.

G3farms
Jul 11th 2009, 12:01 PM
So what are you doing with the frames of wax and the boxes?

Just put the frames in the solar wax melter, the wood is not hurt too bad yet, the worms as you know will chew a frame in half. Scrape all of the crap out of your boxes and put in full sun, the worms will leave there.

Your hive got weak for some reason and the moth got to some uncovered wax as others have said.

Good luck with it.

G3

dogsoldier13
Jul 12th 2009, 11:21 AM
First thing, wax moths did not kill your hive. Something allowed your hive to decrease in numbers to the point they could not defend all the comb, to which many times a colony will abscond.

Many times, it is a situation where the colony swarmed, the hive started crashing from a bad/unmated queen, and there are far less bees trying to protect the comb.

The first week of July should not be a problem for bees to defend the hive. They are either booming with supers on, hives that have bees packed due to taking the supers off, or hives that are building towards a larger colony size.

Wax moths are the end result of a sequence of other happenings. There could be many cicumstances. But none of them involve a colony being taken over and killed by wax moths alone.
Take this the right way....but your missing something along the way.

after going over this in my head till im dizzy,the only thing i have done different was add 5 drawn frames of comb i boughtfrom a local guy,he said the comb was treated with bt. and i also purchased some bt from him,i sprayed the supers and split the comb between my strongest hive and a weak nuc that was beginning to build up.i also removed one super of capped comb from the strong hive,the bees seemed to love the drawn comb and all was well,in 5 days both hives were dead,due to wax moths. the one hive i have left i havent touched,it seems to be strong and building.so,i will never do this again.im learning from my mistakes. :(

Iddee
Jul 12th 2009, 01:48 PM
>>>>in 5 days both hives were dead,due to wax moths.<<<<

No, in 5 days both were dead and the wax moths were cleaning the remains.
It sounds like the BT didn't dry properly and rotted.
If it doesn't dry within 2 or 3 days of mixing, it will rot and is stinky and useless.

dogsoldier13
Jul 12th 2009, 06:02 PM
so its still a mystery :?:

barry42001
Jul 25th 2009, 08:33 AM
When you checked the hive did you infact find a colony of dead or just a empty hive with a few dead bees head first in a few cells. one would indicate possible poisoning, the other indicates absconding for whatever the reasons. Either way won't leave you with a warm fuzzy feeling. As a general rule I would no more consider buying someone else's used combs then their underwear, for the same reasons, don't know what was last done to them. Future reference, exxtract, and giove them back the super to either refill or clean up. This is what I would have done, again just my thinking. :idea:
Barry

pkwilbur
Jul 25th 2009, 10:50 PM
ditto on all the above.

No mystery.... STRONG hives, in boxes FULL of bees on each frame, before adding more, will combat the wax moths and the bees can and will take care of them if BEES are in GOOD numbers. I have actually added some small webbed comb from storage to my STRONG HIVEs. the bees took care of it, cleaned it and never a problem again. I don't suggest it, but I have done it. :shock:

Just make sure your hives are strong, before adding MORE equipment.

just like the others said, maybe there is another evil at work, to weaken the hives. OLD comb could harbor many things, including chemicals which don't help the bees substain strength over time.

Oh and ONE MORE THING!!! All is not lost. Dig those squirmy things out and use for bait. GO FISHIN!!!!! :idea: Wax worms can get costly.

rast
Jul 26th 2009, 07:23 AM
Are you sure that it was the correct BT. It must be BT AIZAWAI. You can buy BT for gardens at most farm stores but it will not work on wax worms. The correct BT will work, as Iddee said it has a very short shelf life once mixed. I only mix what I will use the same day and dump out what is left when I am through. It also has to reach the bottom of the cells. It works through injestion so they have to eat it and as you see, they tunnel through the center of the comb to keep away from bees.
Also the life cycle of wax moths, It takes a minimum of 3 up to 8 days for the eggs to hatch, depending on which study you read. The size of the worms I see in the pictures indicates that they were already in your hives or in the comb you bought and you didn't notice them. If they had eaten any BT treated comb, they would never reach that size.
Here is what I did that seemed to help. Sun has nothing to do with combating wax moths, does seem to help with SHB's. Moths work at night. Two small hives I lost last year both had the covers propped up about 1/8" on one end for ventillation. After seeing a moth come out of another that was propped up, all the covers now lay flat. No matter how big my hives get I still use a reducer, just a larger opening on big hives. If it is a small hive I am building, I keep em packed. I use a follower board if the box isn't notched for drop in's.
Your first line of defence is to have enough guard bees to guard one opening.
Just a note, if you want to see the numbers of moths that they are fighting, make you one of those pepsi bottle, banana/vinegar traps and leave it out for a couple of weeks.

BjornBee
Jul 26th 2009, 09:41 AM
That is right.....there are many types of BT. Each formulated to work on very specific ph levels of the intended larvae to be killed.

As I have previously written, it should be noted that with the ever increasing new pesticides and chemicals on the market, as well as the usage of acid type treatments, one must ask if the internal ph levels, are changing to levels exposing bees to the effects of BT?

In a sterile laborattory setting, where bees (larvae) are known to have specific internal ph levels, no harm was seen in approving BT as bee safe. But we know and have often found, that in-feild application is far different. Bees are exposed, and ph levels potentially changes, with real world application. (Remember the spore treatment against v-mites that was highly anticipated a few years back, and showed great promise, but failed in feild trials? That was a spore type treatment also. Hmmmm......makes you wonder....)

Even something like nosema changes the internal gut dynamics of the bees. CCD bees have been noted to have screwed up internals. Worker bees could be feeding food with abnormal ph levels, thus placing the larvae at damage.

BT today may be safe, but who knows about tomorrow with the changing dynamics of one's hive?

Just something to consider........ ;)

dogsoldier13
Aug 6th 2009, 01:27 PM
First thing, wax moths did not kill your hive. Something allowed your hive to decrease in numbers to the point they could not defend all the comb, to which many times a colony will abscond.

Many times, it is a situation where the colony swarmed, the hive started crashing from a bad/unmated queen, and there are far less bees trying to protect the comb.

The first week of July should not be a problem for bees to defend the hive. They are either booming with supers on, hives that have bees packed due to taking the supers off, or hives that are building towards a larger colony size.

Wax moths are the end result of a sequence of other happenings. There could be many cicumstances. But none of them involve a colony being taken over and killed by wax moths alone.
Take this the right way....but your missing something along the way.


pictures dont lie,wax moths did indeed kill these hives,i understand what you are saying,but, moths still killed them,please dont take this the wrong way,your friend,dogsoldier

Iddee
Aug 6th 2009, 04:13 PM
That's like a man shot in the head. He didn't die from the bullet, he died from heart stoppage. The wax moths can only destroy a dieing hive. There has to be another problem first.

rast
Aug 6th 2009, 04:43 PM
Lets try to put this a different way. A wax moth cannot attack and kill a bee, neither can their larva. If left unchecked the worms can damage, not destroy comb. What keeps them in check? A strong force of bees on the comb. A bee can and will run off a moth. If she (moth) does get the chance to lay, the bees can and will drag the larva out of the hive before damage is done. It takes a lot of bees per comb to take care of this matter.
Now if something starts going wrong in a hive, their numbers start to drop and leaves a lot of unguarded comb, also the bees go into what I call a depression. Rotton queen not laying, fewer eggs, larva, nurse bees, guard bees and workers. To heck with it says the bee. We are going downhill anyway, let the the worms have it.
Now if she was laying good, they would say let's get those #@%&.
Hope this helps,
Rick