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View Full Version : Should Arizona’s sue the US goverment?



alleyyooper
Jul 29th 2010, 02:27 PM
U.S. District Court Judge Susan Bolton's preliminary injunction yesterday blocking enforcement of parts of Arizona's controversial immigration law (aka SB 1070) was merely the first step in what will surely be a lengthy courtroom battle over the law.

The US goverment is claiming they alone have the right to restrict illegal aliens. Many in Arizona feel the feds are not doing a very good job at it. Therefore they passed a law SB 1070 to curb the amount of illegal aliens.

It is their state that is being over ran with them. It is their citizens who's homes are being broken into and robed. It is there hospitals where the illegals go when they are sick or hurt.

Michigans Mike Coxs who is running for Gov. for the GOPhas vowed to get a simular law passed here in Michigan.

:mrgreen: Al

Iddee
Jul 29th 2010, 04:13 PM
Arizona should give 6 months on the chain gang for assisting an illegal. Then if 2 or more are caught, convict them of assisting each other. Then bill the feds for housing them for the 6 months.
Nothing to do with immigration, so it's state rights.

sqkcrk
Jul 29th 2010, 04:56 PM
If you meant Arizonan's, then sure. the faster we get this thing into the judicial system the better.

Bens-Bees
Jul 29th 2010, 06:57 PM
Alley,
The problem they might have with such a lawsuit is that Arizona has been losing illegal immigrants at the rate of about 20% per year for the last 3 years... at least there's one benefit to the crappy economy, fewer jobs means fewer illegals... but the point I was trying to make is that it's going to be hard to prove they are being over-run with them when the population of illegals in their state has been declining.

Another problem they might have is that Obama's administration has been deporting more illegal immigrants than any prior president before him in at least the last 30 years. In order to win such a case they would have to prove that the fed. govt. isn't doing anything about it, but if the current admin is doing more about it than any recent administration, it becomes a losing case.

A final problem that I can see with such a lawsuit is that since Arizona is part of the United States, they participate in shaping the federal government. They have 2 senators and a number of congressmen... so even if it could be established that the federal govt. has dropped the ball, the blame still reverts back onto the states whose representatives were the ones that shaped the federal government's policies.

Personally though, I think this whole issue with sb1070 is more about pride and circling the wagons than anything else, because it would be far easier, and more effective for Arizona to just go back to the drawing board and reshape their laws to get the same end result via different means. I personally liked the Massachussets proposal to require proof of citizenship in order to get public assistance and to crack down on employers that hire illegals with hefty fines. If there are no jobs and there is no public assistance (welfare) available for them, they'll self-deport, then the state doesn't even have to worry about all this mess they've created for themselves with sb1070.

alleyyooper
Jul 31st 2010, 07:20 AM
"Another problem they might have is that Obama's administration has been deporting more illegal immigrants than any prior president before him in at least the last 30 years."

Is that statement fact? Is there a link to the data? Please post such a link if there is one.

:mrgreen: Al

Bens-Bees
Jul 31st 2010, 08:54 PM
Yup...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01790.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/25/AR2010072501790.html)
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... ush/60433/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/07/obama-has-deported-more-immigrants-than-bush/60433/)

alleyyooper
Aug 1st 2010, 07:46 AM
Thank you sir.

:mrgreen: Al

BIGEDDIE
Aug 1st 2010, 08:10 AM
Big deal that they deported 10% more than Bush,thats only 20 or 30 thousand, there is 11 million of them here. Just because one administration dosen't do a good job and the next one does just a bit better dosen't mean they are doing it right. This whole imigration thing has been political for years and the poor tax payers carry the burden. I feel if you are not here legally you need to get out and get out now. It's not fair to the folks who came here the right way and its not fair to the tax payers who have to foot the bill for people who won't obey our laws.
Enough said.

Eddie

riverrat
Aug 1st 2010, 10:15 AM
from what I have heard and cant confirm if its true. Our president has not produced a birth certificate that verifies he is truly a US citizen. If this is the case then we need to start at the top and work our way down. When it comes to deporting illegals

BIGEDDIE
Aug 1st 2010, 02:19 PM
Amen brother :thumbsup:

tecumseh
Aug 1st 2010, 04:17 PM
oh please.... evidently some folks here (see post #9 & 10) believe some unfounded rumor repeated enough times can approximate the truth. this pure rumor seems to reappear again and again and quite evidently no matter how much evidence is presented to contradict this highly politically motivated lie is enough for the true believers. one might speculate that some folks source of information is absolutely purely political driven?

imho the Arizona bill does nothing to counter the problems of illegal immigrants flooding into Arizona. any half baked truths or lie seems to be an essential part of selling this bill to the citizens of Arizona... unfounded fear seems to be a large portion of the marketing of this bill that will at the end of the day do nothing to reduce the problem. in this regards the bill is largely reactionary.

in watching a bit of the most recent news clips profiling of the folks that have pushed this Arizona bill certainly seems to fit certain patterns.

Iddee
Aug 1st 2010, 05:23 PM
So the feds say, "This is my job. Stay away from it. I will continue to feed more money into welfare so it will get worse, but don't you dare try to make it better".

Sounds like the perfect solution to me.

tecumseh
Aug 1st 2010, 06:07 PM
i suspect iddee that a significant part of the problem is the immigration problem (if there is one??? which is to suggest a great deal of the problem may be totally perceptional) likely has more that one cause. confronting the symptoms ain't the same as confronting the root causes (in almost all cases plural) of the problem.

imho the Arizona bill beyond politically pandering tothe fear of another kind of immigrant (ie yankee carpetbaggers) WILL create many more problems than it will ever solve.

Iddee
Aug 1st 2010, 08:52 PM
I say cut welfare checks to 90% of minimum wage and solve the immigration problem along with many more problems. The billions of dollars tax money saved wouldn't hurt either.
Include the provision that welfare recipients receive no more benefits than a worker on minimum wage along with the pay cut.

alleyyooper
Aug 2nd 2010, 08:19 AM
As usall the subject has taken a huge turn to end up with finger pointing at some peoples. GOP vs DEMs and such.

The question was should the state sue the feds for not doing the job of controling illegals if they can not dso the job them selves as the feds feel thay can't.
Please mister moderater point persons to the proper place to post their thoughts on places of birth, who and why people can get welfare, and all the other unrelated comments to the question.

:mrgreen: Al

Iddee
Aug 2nd 2010, 09:37 AM
List the numbers of the posts you want gone and I'll remove them.

Bens-Bees
Aug 2nd 2010, 12:23 PM
Although it's way off topic, here's a little bit about the birth certificate from Snopes:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/bi ... ficate.asp (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp)

Back to topic, the problem with sb1070 isn't so much that it tried to do the job of the feds, it's that it was horribly written... it would have stepped on the rights of legal citizens by requiring them to carry proof of citizenship on them at all times, including kids who likely wouldn't even HAVE photo ID. There are many other states that have laws that target illegal immigration, but none of them take away the rights and freedoms of legal citizens, and we can see that the federal govt. isn't even interrested in going after those others.

In my opinion though, the law was purposefully written so poorly that it would become an issue. Arizona's own attorney general told lawmakers that it would never stand up to constitutional scrutiny but they still passed it. Why? I believe it was to create an issue that would distract Arizona residents from voting their wallets. Arizona is broke. They have borrowed and spent well beyond what the tax payers can bear for many many years now, and the bill is comming due. To compound the problem Arizona lawmakers have further hurt their constituents by turning down federal stimulus money for purely political purposes, the thing is, if you're someone's constituent, you want them to do what's in YOUR best interest, not what might give their national political party an extra one or two representatives. So now I think they're just trying to distract voters by pretending like the problem is worse than it is (they do after all have fewer illegal immigrants today than they have at any time in the past 10 years), and then wrote a bill so poorly that anyone that cares about the freedom of American citizens would oppose it so that they could point at their opponents and say "look, they're for illegal immigration" in order to keep voters from voting based upon what they've actually done.

sqkcrk
Aug 3rd 2010, 05:09 AM
The Governor of Arizona should take a case against the Federal Government to some court. That will move this thing along and put the onus on the proper authorities.

I also think that questions of the legitimacy of our Presidents occupation of the office aught to be settled in a court of law, if those who question that legitimacy are so unsure. Otherwise, get over it. Hawaii is a state. He was born there. Case closed.

I apologize to the Thread Author for my Off Topic comments. I just get real tired of this other topic. I thought that the rest of you were smarter than that.

alleyyooper
Aug 3rd 2010, 06:51 AM
I also feel that post #14 has no place as it does not pertain to the question.

Yes I see where having to carry a birth certificate at all times would be a problem. Here in Michigan you need a picture ID for many state, county and township functions, I had to show mine this morning to vote. Yes for some things even children have to have them. funny thing is no body is argueing the part of children having a picture ID here. The goverment bodies have told parents that it will be easier to find their lost child if they have finger prints and a picture ID on file. Of course you have to show a birth certificate to get it done.

:mrgreen: Al

Iddee
Aug 3rd 2010, 07:11 AM
Post #14 has been removed, although I do feel the OP was a lead in to a political discussion, if it begins to get heated, I will lock or remove the thread in it's entirety.

riverrat
Aug 3rd 2010, 08:08 AM
Post #14 has been removed, although I do feel the OP was a lead in to a political discussion, if it begins to get heated, I will lock or remove the thread in it's entirety.


lets hope we dont have to do that. This is what seperates us from other forums we can agree to disagree :thumbsup:

G3farms
Aug 3rd 2010, 12:02 PM
I agree, all the way around!