Fumagillin-B drench for Nosema?

**d.magnitude** · May 2nd 2012, 02:23 PM

Hi,
I suspect some of my hives are infected with Nosema apis, and I might want to try the "drench" method for applying Fumagillin-B. Anyone here have experience with that?

More specifically, does anyone have information about dosing amount with this method? I believe Randy Oliver mentioned using 30mg per 1 cup of syrup on each 10 frame colony in his trial. I can't measure 30 mg by weight, and have no idea what that would be measured by volume of the powder. I would likely be looking at tiny amounts, as I'm looking to treat nucs that are due to accept queens that I do not want to lose.

I'm also mid-honey flow, so do you think this method is OK while honey supers are on full size hives? Just looking for opinions here. The thinking out there is that with spraying the bees directly on the frames, they consume most or all of the medication and don't necessarily store it. It is also thought to be a more effective and economical method (if not in labor) application because you can use a lower amount of the medication. Hmm...?

-Dan

**Iddee** · May 2nd 2012, 03:32 PM

Nosema apis..... 3 days of warm sunshine is as effective as medication.

Nosema cerannae needs chemicals.

**tecumseh** · May 2nd 2012, 05:23 PM

and what make you suspect that it is nosema apis? nosema carena is much more likely according to the lab stuff.

in a flow I myself would either of the nosema are normally not what comes to my mind first off. again I don't know what symptoms you are noticing?

**Zulu** · May 2nd 2012, 05:42 PM

Help me as a beginner understand what you are seeing that you suspect Nosema?

What are the symptoms so far into the spring ? I always thought this was an over winter thing which is why I am asking..

**d.magnitude** · May 2nd 2012, 07:43 PM

I've seen some streaking/spotting on the front of the hive.

I have a few hives in one yard that I've noticed spotting on this spring, but I could not remember when those "marks" showed up. I guess I was convincing myself that they always looked like that. I meant to clean off the hive bodies to get a "clean slate" but never got around to it. Full disclosure: these are the hives I've mentioned earlier w/ some serious varroa pressure, so maybe they're otherwise stressed. Also, my gut tells me (no pun intended) that these guys have not been storing honey/nectar quite like they should with the season we've been having (again, admittedly non-scientific).

I pulled a nuc as a split from one of these hives, and within 24 hours I noticed new spotting on the front of it, so I guess it's been ongoing.

I'm happy to not treat if favorable weather conditions will really clear it up. I'm just weary of letting it go in nucs that I'm trying to introduce queens (or cells) into. I've read that Nosema may be a major factor in high supersedure rates.

**tecumseh** · May 3rd 2012, 04:59 AM

at some point 'non-scientific' is how you will be forced to operate. most of us just don't have the money or understanding to drag a bunch of lab stuff along with us as me fool around with 'the girls'.

streaking I suspect is more a sign of the apis variety of nosema than the careana form.

a level teaspoon of fumidil weights about 5 grams.

**hlhart2001** · Jun 23rd 2012, 08:46 AM

Newbee here...do you treat nosema preventatively(whether there are symptoms or not) or reactively(symptoms are there). I really don't want to have to use meds if I don't have to, but being new to this I would like your opinions?

**tecumseh** · Jun 24th 2012, 05:37 PM

a snip...
do you treat nosema preventatively(whether there are symptoms or not) or reactively(symptoms are there).

tecumseh:
for almost all mature hives here I try to NOT treat ANYTHING in a preventative manner. fumidil is expensive enough that doing so would be quite expensive. the almost above above does not include some mature hives used for queen rearing purposes and most especially in non mature hives including cell starting thru queen mating nucs.

**hlhart2001** · Jun 25th 2012, 08:12 AM

Great...I really don't want to spend $$ and treat unnecessarily if I don't have to.

Originally Posted by tecumseh

a snip...
do you treat nosema preventatively(whether there are symptoms or not) or reactively(symptoms are there).

tecumseh:
for almost all mature hives here I try to NOT treat ANYTHING in a preventative manner. fumidil is expensive enough that doing so would be quite expensive. the almost above above does not include some mature hives used for queen rearing purposes and most especially in non mature hives including cell starting thru queen mating nucs.

**Omie** · Jun 25th 2012, 10:44 PM

Please correct me if I'm wrong-
If your bees do not have nosema, then treating them with fumidil is not going to prevent them from possibly getting nosema in the future. So how can it be a 'preventative' measure anyway?

**efmesch** · Jun 25th 2012, 10:58 PM

If this is any help in measuring your amounts, 30 grams is roughly 1 ounce (28.5 gm). You can also pour out your supply bottle of powder, make a pile take a knife and cut it in half. Take one half and cut it again doing this over and over till your "pile" is reduced to one ounce.

**tecumseh** · Jun 26th 2012, 02:35 AM

I think (correct me if I am wrong here) the 30 grams was in the form of a mixed syrup. There is one pound (454 grams is what the bottle states) in a large bottle of fumidil this will treat from 100 to 200 hives when mixed in syrup. approximately 5 grams of the product is what I normally mix with a gallon of syrup for feeding.

an Omie snip..
If your bees do not have nosema, then treating them with fumidil is not going to prevent them from possibly getting nosema in the future.

tecumseh:
you are of course correct in a literal sense here Omie. The product is designed via it label to be fed either in the springtime or the fall and I think(???) the question was in regards to whether folks fed everything or only when the symptoms suggest you have a problem.

in some locations (yours would likely apply here) the fall feeding regime might be view as being preventative to bees that are confined for long period of time.

**Omie** · Jun 26th 2012, 09:35 AM

One of my several mentors I took classes from is a longtime BK in his 80's whom I like and respect very much. But every time I see him he chastises me with "If you don't treat for no-see-ums (his term) and foul brood religiously every Spring and Winter, your bees are going to DIE!"

And every time for 3 years now I reply to him "Got the graves all dug but they're still keeping me waiting!" I guess it's our running gag now. lol