CCD Maybe

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by brooksbeefarm, Aug 14, 2010.

  1. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    Around July 20, 10 i checked my hives for surplus honey, i always leave my mean hive for last, It had two full supers (mostley uncapped) and was working on the third. Last week i was taking honey off hives in that yard and noticed very little activity at the entrance of the mean hive, when i took the lid off i didn't have the usual cloud of bees attack my veil and saw wax mouth webs between the frames. I broke it down and seen it had been robbed out and know sign of brood bees (live or dead) except a few robbers. This must be a case of CCD because i can't imagine any hive or hives that would want to take them on. Any other thoughts ??. Jack
     
  2. Bens-Bees

    Bens-Bees New Member

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    Well you can rule out CCD since they were robbed. One of the primary indicators of CCD is an unwillingness of other hives to rob out the left-over stores. A closer inspection would be needed to determine the cause of death however.
     

  3. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    since NO ONE currently knows exactly what CCD is (or was) then this individual case might be CCD and then again it might not be CCD. neither you nor I will likely ever know. some after the fact analysis could be performed if the wax moth damage ain't to extensive which MIGHT point to some specific cause.

    I suspect (don't absolutely know) that all the KNOWN clues to what was reported to be CCD are speculative notions the informational weight of which should be highly discounted.

    some speculation of my own... 1) perhaps the hive was mean because they were slowly (or perhaps not so slowly) drifting towards being queenless. 2) at this time of the year here the center of the brood nest can move upwards and slightly away from the front entrance which can make a hive open to wax moth and shb infestation. once infested the hive typically become extremely defensive. once wax moth or shb become established (generally on frames towards the outside walls of the bottom box) the hive nest is first pushed up further but fairly quickly the hive comes to understand they cannot defend themselves against the intruder and they abscond in mass.
     
  4. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    >>>>some speculation of my own... 1) perhaps the hive was mean because they were slowly (or perhaps not so slowly) drifting towards being queenless.<<<<

    DITTO
     
  5. cow pollinater

    cow pollinater New Member

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    I've lost about ten to "CCD" in the last two years. (none of them were headed by hygenic/survivor type queens :thumbsup: ) They are slow to be robbed even if you leave the lid off during a dearth. Once robbing begins the bees just kind of come and go without the frenzy of robbing. All of them have been strong hives. Most of them were on new comb. There is still emerging brood and sometimes larvae and eggs. Two still had queens :confused:
     
  6. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    Sorry, my computers been down (AT&T modem bad). This hive was four years old and was mean from the beginning,i was always going to requeen it but didn't because it was one of my best honey producers. I think it superseded the second year because i found empty queen cells that year (one with the bottom ate out and two ate out from the sides) if so it didn't help, they were just as mean. What made me think it might be CCD is that the wax moths were in the honey supers and the brood chamber wasn't bothered ( the honey supers were brood chambers at one time) but there wasn't any brood or pollen in the lower brood box either. Your probably right that they were queenless ( i'm not that broke up about them :roll: ) but it seemed to happen to quick :confused: . I'm from the old school and probably won't change,if i have a good laying queen and she's 3 yrs. old, i won't replace her until her brood pattern starts to fail. In the 1960's i had queens that were good layers, that were five yrs. old. We may be losing some some good genetics with all this hybrid breeding, but i do like the more gentle bees :thumbsup: . Jack
     
  7. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    I should say Jack (first we missed ya' in your absence) that very early on and prior to CCD being widely proclaimed I had two hives (set side by side) that displayed some of the symptoms of CCD. Although it was reported at the time (of CCD being first reported) that the condition wasn't infective the two hives setting side by side sure suggested that whatever I had was. In addition the bees that generally vacated a hive and vanish in my case were as plain as day since a very hard and constant prevailing wind had pushed two piles of dead bodies up to the very front of the hive. The two hives managed to persist for quite some time (perhaps a month) but this was almost entirely due to the fact that even without strong population and while setting in a very heavily populated yard they were never robbed out like you might expect. Each hive seems to be in a constant battle to replace the existing queen but had almost no attendant population to help the queen once she did start to lay. Eventually I knocked the bees out of the hive and melted down the comb in the boxes since nothing I did seem to improve the situation.

    Much later (and from a very different set of observations) I decided that nosema was at least a good portion of the problem. Given how hard the condition has been to pin point to actual cause by the lab folks suggest that there is likely a number of causes that enter into the larger picture to create CCD.

    the larger point I am trying to make here is that no matter what you read or heard from this or that source there are no cut in stone symptoms of what we have come to loosely refer to as CCD. some 'classical symptoms' of this condition may be quite evident in one place with one group of bees and be totally absent in a group of bees down the road a few miles.