Confused

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by brooksbeefarm, Mar 16, 2012.

  1. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    When plowing a corn field next to the beeyard i noticed two hives did not have much activity, so yesterday i went through them. Both had between 30 to 40 pounds of honey in top super, there wasn't any brood and on the north two side frames i found the queen with about a hundred workers??? There was 10 to 15 dead bees on the screen bottomboard, last fall these were strong hives and we haven't had much winter? Well i broke them down and put them in a 5 frame nuc with two frames of honey with pollen on them, and three empty drawn combs. I don't give them much of a chance, going through another yard today and if i find some with alot of brood i will give those nucs a frame of brood with nurse bees. Anyone else seen this problem? Most of my hives are going strong, hope i don't find anymore like that today.Jack
     
  2. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    I have heard that story toooo many times this year. No one, including the state apiarist and state inspectors have an answer. The best guess is Nosema Cerannae, or however you spell it.
     

  3. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    yes... my thinking also.

    caught early enough fumidillian can really turn this kind of hive around. most times here the dwindling of population begins sometime in the late fall.
     
  4. Tyro

    Tyro Member

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    Last year, I had the same thing happen to my two strongest hives. I wrapped them up in November - all was well. I checked them in February and there was hardly a bee in the box. If it had been summer, I would have thought that they absconded. I am still not sure what happened.
     
  5. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    Had all but one hive do this, had plenty of stores and bee bread, could see where there had been a small patch of brood also. Just no bees to be found anywhere and very few (less than 20) dead bees in each hive.

    One of the hives that was dead had five bees in a circle facing each other and had several SHB held up in a couple of cells. All of them had evidently frozen to death. Troopers to the very end!
     
  6. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    Went through the other bee yard yesterday (11 hives) 100 yds. from the affected one. I found one deadout and three more hives with the same symptoms? These were strong hives last fall and had alot of activity on the warm days this winter, the deadout was one of my stronger hives, the one i always worked last because they tend to be a little hot, i didn't think anything would mess with them.There were thousands of dead bees on the (solid) bottomboard and the hive was robbed out? The other three (two still had there queen) had about a hundred bees and 40 to 50 pounds of honey in the top super, and one thing i thought was odd, there was no attempt to rob them out from the other hives? Is this a synptom of Nosema Ceranae:???: Jack
     
  7. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    Question,with the drawn comb i have from these hives, would you reuse it in starting nuc's with new queens? I was thinking of spraying it with bleach water and let it dry in the sun first? will this kill the Nosema spores? Another question,if i reuse this drawn comb could i spray it with bleach water, let it dry, and then spray it with BT to store it? or would the bleach stop the BT from doing it's job? I feel like a kid again asking all these questions:grin: After awhile the grown-ups would say, why don't you go out and play.:lol:
     
  8. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    I am curious as to your season for the winter.... was it unusually warm and perhaps wet?

    I myself would freeze any feed frames and then reuse. Empty frames I would set out into strong sunlight.. normally I like to lean em up with the comb exposed to the sunlight. bt probably wouldn't hurt anything but if you plan to reuse these fairly quickly bt is likely unnecessary.

    the only one who will play with tecumseh is his 'girls' :sad:
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2012
  9. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    The winter was unusually warm and dry for our area.Some old timers (including me) around here, said they never seen a winter like this one, little snow and maybe 4 inches of rain all winter? I went to amother bee yard (35 miles away) today and found one out of the seven with the same symptom and 50 pounds of honey on it.another hive that was running over with bees with no brood but 3 supersede cells, capped? There might have been a queen, but i didn't find her.(had to put syrup on it, they only had two med. frames of honey) That hive might be in trouble because i didn't see any drones in any of the hives, but two of the seven had capped drone cells. These hives are in the woods so there could be some wild hives with drones flying? This year sure has a wierd beginning so far, for beekeeping and farming.:roll: Jack
     
  10. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    That it has. weird couple of years lately
     
  11. Tyro

    Tyro Member

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    I did reuse the frames last year - and I didn't have a good year. Neither did the commercial beekeeper from whom I purchased the frames. He lost half of his splits, I lost about 80% of the nucs I made. I don't know how much of this was due to using the old frames from the 'abandoned' hives (there were only two of them and my problems last year were more widespread than that).

    I also don't know about the value of treating with bleach BUT, if I had to do last year over, I would have sprayed every frame (with bees/brood on it) of the nucs that I made up with Fumigilin and sugar water. Since then, I have read of similar problems and the solution seems to have been getting some sort of Nosema medication into them.
     
  12. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    Picked up my six deadouts yesterday (12 boxes total) I have at least 6 boxes of completely capped honey that never got touched. I would have expected to find a lot more dead bees than what I found. It appears as if most of these died out very early on and certainly not of starvation. Found two with brood that had just emerged (a few dead still emerging) but what struck me the most was the small amount of bees on the bottom board. Usually when a hive dies out there are dead bees piling up between the frames above the bottom board, but these had barely enough bees to cover the bottom boards. I suspected last fall that the hives went from strong after harvest to small just before wrapping so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. With 6 out of 22 gone and I think I might have a couple more doubters (still a ways to go) this could be a tough winter. Perhaps stopping treatment for nosema 2-3 years ago caught up with me?
     
  13. tommyt

    tommyt New Member

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    Do you put your bees on Blueberry's
    I heard of a fungicide that is used on them and it will take up to 3 years to kill off the bees

    Please remember I heard this from a man at a meeting He WAS NOT a speaker he just spoke
    of it from who he stated was a friend (commercial Keeper) that now refuses to put bees on Blueberry's


    Famous Quotes
    Not everything you read on the net is true
    Abraham Lincoln:thumbsup:
     
  14. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    Perry, i'm thinking the same thing, i quit treating for nosema 3 years ago. I'm beginning to think all the talk about not treating for something that you don't have, by putting unnecessary chemicals like Fumagilin in your hives, is the wrong way to go.I didn't have this problem when i was treating for nosema both spring and fall, but like iddee said, even the people that keep up on new problems with bees don't know what's going on? It's heart breaking to see a hive that was strong (3 to 4 weeks ago) dwindle to a queen and a hundred or so bees, and 40 to 60 pounds of honey stored above them.Something i've never seen in almost 50 yrs. of beekkeeping?? Jack
     
  15. rast

    rast New Member

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    Seems to be wide spread. I was whining to my old beekeeping buddy/mentor about my losses and he politely told me to shut up. He had 12 hives left out of 60+ and can't figure out why.
     
  16. jb63

    jb63 New Member

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    Have you looked at any of your dead bees under a micro-scope?
     
  17. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    I don't have access to one, and being an old sprout cutter i wouldn't know what to look for? Our club was talking at our last meeting about getting one, and we have members now that would know what to look for.:thumbsup: We have a membership of 191 now, and are looking for a new meeting place. We have out grown the big room at the main Library:shock: Jack
     
  18. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    Jack writes
    I'm beginning to think all the talk about not treating for something that you don't have, by putting unnecessary chemicals like Fumagilin in your hives, is the wrong way to go.

    tecumseh:
    it seems to me that lots of folks talk in a very purist fashion (a lot of topics beyond bees might fit into this conversation) with little understanding that WE do not live is some perfect world. just seems to me folks are increasing incapable of defining the + and - of any question? so (or it at least seems to me) that things get lumped together as if all these things chemical are the same. my question is... now remind me again of what is NOT chemical? is honey and pollen not chemical... is air not chemical in composition???

    for myself I do not lump fumigillian in the same category as many of the thing beekeeper have tossed into a beehive. fumigillian just doesn't work in the same manner or encourage the same kind of long term negative results (I typically think/model these kind of things as ultimate outcomes vs approximate outcome... ie the total long term consequence vs the consequence in the very short term).

    given the price of fumigillian I myself like to use this in a sparing manner... primarily in queen rearing stuff since I do know (via studies done long ago) the down side of not employing this valuable asset in that part of my beekeeping endeavors. if I lived in some place with long winters or wet conditions I myself would have no problem feeding some of this product in the late fall of the year.
     
  19. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    Point well taken tec,:thumbsup: when feeding 72 hives fumigillian & syrup at a rate of 2 gallons per hive in the spring, and one gallon per hive in the fall, you better have deep pockets.:shock: One thing i didn't mention,the stronger hives in the yards did not attempt to rob the weakened hives,and they all had lots of honey on them?? Jack
     
  20. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    the price of the one pound bottle of fumigillian I have on the shelf here does make me think twice before I get on some program to use the stuff. yet at about a buck per treatment it is easily one of the cheapest and safest products on the market.

    some few years back I got the idea via how well frame feeders were cleaned up (or actually how they were not cleaned up at all) that I could somewhat predict those hives in the fall that were suffering from this problem (which I suspected at the time was the newer form of nosema). 6 total hives out of some 150 or so... treated all of the 6 (to start the frame feeder were replaced with boardman feeders inserted into my top covers) and of these all made it to the spring after receiving about a gallon of medicated feed. I did not treat again in the spring but converted all of these into resources for my first spring nucs (which all got some small dose... perhaps a quart of syrup).

    the eventual value of those 6 hives made the cost of that bottle* seem like a pretty good deal.

    *I should mention here that even after treatment the bottle still contained enough product to treat 90+ other hives.