Curious About Wiring Frames

Discussion in 'Beekeeping 101' started by jajtiii, Feb 19, 2010.

  1. jajtiii

    jajtiii New Member

    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I put wire on both my deep and my shallow frames. The former are for brood, the latter are for honey (well, that's my plan - we'll see if the bees follow it=).

    It occurred to me the other day that I do not recall ever seeing a video, article or other tidbit referencing a shallow frame when doing wiring. Do folks recommend wiring the shallow frames?
     
  2. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

    Messages:
    6,487
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I do. It is most essential if you are extracting the crop. Over time wiring will also limit comb sagging (stretching created by weight at the center of the frame). If you are doing as Richard Taylor suggested and take your honey crop off with a knife you might wish to not wire. With new wax and no wire you would still need to be pretty careful in how you flip/manipulate the frames.. with weight and heat the new stuff can be pretty fragile.
     

  3. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

    Messages:
    8,996
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The reason you don't see much on it is because most beeks who extract use mediums or deeps. Those who use shallows do mostly comb honey. If you extract, wire is best. For comb honey, wire is in the way.
     
  4. Bitty Bee

    Bitty Bee New Member

    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yep, we only wire deeps and use the shallows for comb honey. We don't wire our mediums, but that is because we don't have an extractor yet. We just crush and strain the mediums; leave the deeps for the bees.
     
  5. barry42001

    barry42001 New Member

    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    crimnp wired foundation ( deep supers ) and I don't wire but use pins in end bars ( yeah a bit lazy perhaps but is my one indulgement inn laziness ). I make up for it when extracting those deep supers and uncappnig the heavier frames of honey in the middle of the summer.
     
  6. arkiebee

    arkiebee New Member

    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have had bees going on 2 years now and I only have Duragilt foundation in our frames. We don't have to do any wiring, but so far...knock on wood... we haven't had any trouble with the foundation/comb falling. I even extracted honey last year and I was careful with flipping the frames and all the frames held up.

    I really don't know any different - but I know a lot of beekeepers hate Duragilt foundation. This is something I would like to understand more about. :confused:
     
  7. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

    Messages:
    6,487
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    arkie writes:
    I really don't know any different - but I know a lot of beekeepers hate Duragilt foundation. This is something I would like to understand more about.

    tecumseh:
    I think that plastic stuff has it place and there are definite + value to plastic based foundations. for example... I think any of the plastic based foundation product should limit the growth of shb and wax moth at the extreme infestation level. the long term problem with plastic is getting the frames properly pulled. I suspect this is largely a matter of timing (by the beekeeper) and not so much a problem of the product itself.
     
  8. jajtiii

    jajtiii New Member

    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Interesting. If I understand correctly, if you do not use an extractor, you have little need for wire. Is that correct?
     
  9. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

    Messages:
    6,487
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I guess jajtlll the question is really in regards to the purpose of wiring frames. those small thin wires stretched between the holes in the end bar 1) provide some tension induced rigidity to the frame, 2) limit the sagging of the comb towards the center of the frame created by the weight of honey and 3) allow the beekeeper to flip the frame in any particular manner* and 4) allows for radial extraction at high speeds while limiting the pulled comb from being blown out from the frame**.

    crimped wire and plastic based foundation accomplish pretty much the same listing with the exception of #1..

    *number 3 may be the very best reason to wire for a lot of newbees since there is nothing more discouraging than to get a new hive going and upon doing your first inspection have the entire center of a nice full frame of brood plus the queen smack into the ground at you feet because you flipped the frame in an improper direction.

    **this problem in shallow depth can frames can be limited by placing 4 to 5 rubber bands down the length of a frame... after uncapping but prior to placing in the extractor.

    so jajtll wiring does not automatically equate to extraction.... on the other hand if you wished to remove your crop with a knife in the form of chunk honey you would likely wish to absolutely avoid the wiring (or plastic, or crimped wire).
     
  10. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

    Messages:
    3,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I tried plastic foundation and really liked the way (quick) it goes in the frame. I found that if there is alot of nectar coming in the bees will draw nice full frames out just fine,but if not they make spotty comb on it. Another draw back that i and others have found (in our bee club) that it is colder in the the winter than wax. I have put supers on with plastic foundation and the bees would not touch it and start swarm cells,if you paint a thin layer of wax on it or spray sugar water on it will sometimes help.I have caught swarms and put them on plastic foundation and they wouldn't stay and catch the same swarm and put them on wax and they went right to work on it. Some beekeepers swear by it and have good luck with it, so it's one of those things that what works for you thing. Wiring frames and using wax foundation takes longer, and i like it better and i think the bees do to. :thumbsup: Ok, guy's i had my say, so be nice. :lol: Jack
     
  11. barry42001

    barry42001 New Member

    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have found that bees prefer bees wax with out execption, but will work plastic if grudingly often leaving gaps or holes in the comb
     
  12. indypartridge

    indypartridge New Member

    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't wire. Sometimes I'll use crimped-wire foundation, sometimes starter strips, sometimes just a popsicle stick. But heed everything Tecumseh wrote. New brood comb can easily fall out if not wired and not handled carefully, and extracting at high speeds will blow out comb. I choose not to wire, but I don't run a lot of hives so I can afford to be extra careful when I'm extracting with a hand-crank extractor, and I've changed how I check brood frames so that I don't lose it by flipping it over carelessly. Wiring is just like everything else in life: the choices you make have consequences.
     
  13. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

    Messages:
    6,487
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    jack writes:
    Ok, guy's i had my say, so be nice.

    tecumseh:
    there is a certain bee biology in the bees wax production associated with the front side of the nectar flow that makes pulling foundation much less hazardous. I have had folks (fairly successful beeks) tell me they could get a hive of bees to pull wax on a piece of cardboard at the proper time of season. at other times no matter what you put in the hive the bees seem to make a mess of things and it don't matter if it is real wax or plastic based foundation. timing for getting foundation pulled is critical and here it typically only happens once a year (last year being an exception since we had a small bit of fall flow).
     
  14. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

    Messages:
    3,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The reason i said,OK guys be nice, is because at my bee club the plastic Vs. beeswax foundation can stir things up. Some members swear by it and wouldn't use nothing else. :confused: They've came after me when i told them they are buying my recycle milk jugs, and you can't chew the comb honey made from plastic foundation. :mrgreen: Now when the subject comes up they ask me to leave the room. :lol: Jack
     
  15. rast

    rast New Member

    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That's good Jack :D .
     
  16. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

    Messages:
    5,162
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Good job Jack on being green and recycling those milk jugs. :lol:

    G3
     
  17. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

    Messages:
    6,487
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jack... don't you obtain some entertainment value when these little tidbits of beekeeping seem to raise folks blood pressure to unbelievable levels? What do you reckon that is really about?
     
  18. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

    Messages:
    3,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Tec, i find it almost unbelievable how serious some people are about minor things. Those are the ones that gives people like me ( raised with 3 brothers and 38 first cousins) something to play with. :yahoo: Then when they realize what you've been doing ( having fun at their expense) you have to watch your backside. :mrgreen: That's one thing fun about bee clubs, you make alot of friends and i have received some well deserved payback :( . Then again there are some (very few) you just leave alone. Jack

    ps. I know what some of you are thinking, No i didn't marry one of my cousins.