da rat scenerio again

Discussion in 'Beekeeping 101' started by riverrat, Feb 11, 2011.

  1. riverrat

    riverrat New Member

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    You have a bee yard with 10 hives. That have just been inspected by the state bee inspector. He was a gruffy old ex marine who forgot he is no longer in the military. Wanting to be hard nose and pushing his power off on you. He tells you your hives are not healthy. He comes to the conclusion there is foul brood spores in all your hives although there is no apparent signs leading you to believe the hives have foul brood. He says 3 hives have signs of nosemia each of these have a few yellow and brown streaks on the front of the hives. Nothing that really concerns you since it is early spring and you just came out of a harsh winter. He also points out its late march and the bees are not building up like they should. But you are running a russian strain of bee. He belittles you into thinking you know absolutely nothing about bees. How you going to prove this character wrong without him shutting down your operation.
     
  2. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    Have him point out which hives have frames in them that show AFB. Then pull them out and take them to the state lab in Springfield, Mo. (my area) for verification. Jack
     

  3. riverrat

    riverrat New Member

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    Remember it is said that all hives have foul brood spores the conditions have to be right for them to cause problems. sending them to a lab may just confirm what he was telling you and he knows that
     
  4. riverrat

    riverrat New Member

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    some of you newbees jump in and take a shot at these scenarios. Any scenario I come up with can actually happen and we have seen them happen in a round about ways. they are written to help us all learn and to share information before you have to post that it happened and you are usure what to do.
     
  5. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    Ok, i had it in my mind he had found AFB. i'll let the newbees give it a shot. Jack
     
  6. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    Like you said "all hives have spores in them to some extent". I would ask hime to show me the frames that are infected with AFB and point out just exactly what he is seeing. Most of the hard nosed folks who like to throw around their weight are often easily brought down when they can not back up what they are preaching. Now if he can settle down a little and get into the teaching mode and show off his skills as an inspector then everyone will win (except for the bees with a bad case of AFB). Best thing is to not go on the defensive (at least do not show it) just keep asking questions even if you know the answers, it will let him still have the big head and he might even prove himself wrong or show you a thing or two. Ask what to do or how to treat, do I need to feed and what, ask even the most basic questions since he thinks you know nothing. Learning has to have a good foundation and the basics are the best place to start.

    Having "signs" of nosema in the early spring of just a couple of streaks on the front of a hive would not alarm me too bad.

    Not building up in March, well it was stated you just came out of a hard winter and that these are Russian bees, so that sounds about right. Location has a lot of play in this as well, you in south Florida (things blooming) or the UP of Michigan (might still have snow on the ground).
     
  7. riverrat

    riverrat New Member

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    no by all means fire away. I just want to try to encourage everyone to get involved. young and old newbees as well as old keeps


    Take a look at the original thread little trick there he said there was spours he didnt say there was actual foul brood. this scenario I set up to look at ways to deal with an inpsector that is troublesome in making it known he has power. Then come up with ways to deal with him that wont make it worse on you.
     
  8. riverrat

    riverrat New Member

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    @g3 I like your approach. The way you deal with someone in this scenario can make or break the working relationship you have from that point on.
     
  9. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    I would handle it much like G3,but i would tell him i was aware that all hives have AFB spores,that i wasn't aware you could see them with the naked eye unless they became active in the hive, where it would give off a oder and you could do the tooth pick test on the larva, and i would ask if he could show me some so i would know what to look for.. :confused:With the nosemia question i would tell him the bees have not been able to fly due to the bad weather we had,that i would watch for die off and feed fumagilin B if it doesn't clear up. One reason for know early buildup is because of the late spring, and that i had the Russian strain on bees, that they tend to be later than other strains of bees to build up but build up fast when they do. Jack
     
  10. riverrat

    riverrat New Member

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    exactly what i had in mind when I came up with this scenario anyone else got any ideas from a different angle
     
  11. charmd2

    charmd2 New Member

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    Ewww... I don't like the drill sargent attitude. I would probally pull out my trusty smart phone and start showing him pictures and examples of what he is complaining about. Then show him every single page that talks about spring build up. Nosema. And foulbrood spores existing.. but then I end to be smart aleck about that when I know someone is attempting to demean others
     
  12. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    That was the enviromentI grew up in and know how to handle it very well. It will either make you so mad you will explode or someone will learn something. Running into an inspector or superintendent on a job site is much the same way. I just act all ignorant on them sometimes even tell them I can't read and act ashamed of myself. Had one inspector come out on a job site and start reading me the riot act of how smart he was and even gave me a fifty page copy of their codes for laying and testing underground pipe. I told him I could not read a lick, he informed me to look in the back of the code book, it had plenty of pictures for folks just like me. Another inspector got all mad and said he would call the office on me, so I gave him a business card with the office number on it. You should have seen him stomp off when I answered his call on my cell phone, call forwarding ;).
     
  13. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    Would asking for a second opinion be unreasonable? I do it with my doctor. If I thought the gentleman was off base I would be polite about it but maybe if he realized that he would have to substantiate his diagnosis he might back off a bit.

    I have been inspected a few times, twice by our provincial bee health advisor and found they were more interested in helping than anything else.
    Once I got a surprise inspection (1 hour notice) from Health Canada (Federal). Buddy was friendly, came to the house, we talked about stuff for half an hour, then went to the basement where I stored stuff and he took pictures of my bee stuff, including the cabinet (opened) where I kept my Formic and Oxalic acid. Then he asked if we could go to one of my yards (5 mins. away) I said sure. We got there and he got a suit from his truck (after drawing a map of the area and where my hives were located) and asked if we could look in a couple of hives. I said OK and he picked 2 out. I opened the top and he took pictures and then he asked me to lift the top box up (double deeps). I did and he took a couple more pictures.
    It felt pretty invasive at the time but I suspect they were looking for illegal stuff being used in hives. Now if there had been attitude I don't know if I would have been quite as cooperative.

    Perry
     
  14. brendantm130

    brendantm130 New Member

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    Whatever you do, you don't get on his bad side. Then you are forever screwed, no matter what you do.

    Building Contractor

    Brendan
     
  15. Bsweet

    Bsweet Member

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    As there is no citation or shut down order, I think he is testing you for at least basic knowledge. Tell him you still have alot to learn what is his opinion to correct these issues. Some of these folks just want you to know how important they think they are. Moniter his findings to see if he really knew what he was talking about or was spouting new found wisdom from a three day class to be a state inspector. Jim
     
  16. milapostol

    milapostol New Member

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    Does this inspector know bees? Or is he just looking for signs that he saw in pics?

    When the city told us to limit the number of hives to one and the height, they admitted that they didn't know anything about bees and were just trying to make legislation to pacify someone who complained.

    And I agree with brendantm130, not to get on his bad side. I've found that staying very calm and really listening to someone's complaints, explanations, exhortations, and/or hot air can really diffuse the situation. So yes, very calmly ask what frames/hives showed signs of "unhealthiness".

    Fun, fun rat scenarios!
     
  17. riverrat

    riverrat New Member

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    this has been one of the better ones I have posted lots of participation with some great points and some different directions one could take. I see in general you wouldnt want to make your life harder by making him mad. Hang around a couple of days and I will have another scenario worked up. any other ideas on how to deal with this guy. I for one would be talking with other keeps to see if they are having the same problem. If it turns out most are having the same exact issues with the inspector. A call to the department of agriculture or the agency he works with to make them aware of what is going on. There is strength in numbers.
     
  18. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    in all my years I have never run into a state inspector cut from this cloth. I would suspect most commercial beekeepers being EXTREMELY independent souls would not allow such a jerk to survive as an inspector for longer than a week or so before they unleashed the bad dogs on the idiot. actually I would suspect most state inspectors I know would never consider hiring such an incompetent.

    personally I would call the head state bee inspector and tell him to come and remove this fool from my property.

    ps... almost any person can make some claim that there is foul brood spores or nosema spores in a hive and in fact be correct 90% of the time. without signs of a disease or something that is amiss no state inspector is going to say anything.... they might ask you about what acceptable remedy or prevention you use for this or that disease vector (which might clue you into problems you did not realize you had). almost without exception every state inspector I have known is quite level, quite reasonable and go way beyond their job title to help and assist bee keeper (small and large).
     
  19. riverrat

    riverrat New Member

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    Tec I agree with you on all. While we havent had an inspector in the state of kansas for years the last one retired and the state cut his job from the budget. You couldnt ask for a nicer fellar. Some of my scenarios are a bit extreme and highly unlikely. But in the world we live in I try to make a scenario that is possible to happen. While extreme there is still a possibilty for it to happen.