" Dann Purvis Book Split Method"

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by DonMcJr, Apr 13, 2013.

  1. DonMcJr

    DonMcJr New Member

    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well if you read one of my other posts I thought I had 2 hives that survived the winter but it looks like it may be only . So I am going to do this split once the Dandelions Bloom.

    Had a guy named Don explin this Split Method at our last Bee Club meeting and wanted to share it with all of you cause it seems like it will work awesome!

    Here's the Pictorial he handed out...
     

    Attached Files:

  2. blueblood

    blueblood New Member

    Messages:
    2,056
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks for sharing this method.
     

  3. Omie

    Omie New Member

    Messages:
    2,845
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It's a neat method, but you'll need to adapt it if the brood nest isn't laid out like that. Brood areas and vary in their size, shape, and location in the boxes. If you understand the reasoning behind this method in the chart, then you'll be able to tailor it to your particular situation.
     
  4. ApisBees

    ApisBees Active Member

    Messages:
    2,060
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I would suspect that he is not looking at every frame but using this system to get 1/2 the bees and stores in each box. All he has to do is move every 2nd frame into a new box. Be careful if you have 2 brood chambers as there can be brood in both boxes and you don't want to separate this brood from the cluster.
    is he requeening both splits while doing this? Using Cells or making walk away splits? All he is doing is dividing the brood and resorces equaly between the two new hives. Did he give any indication of how strong the colony to be split should be before preforming the split and what time of the year he is doing this?
     
  5. DonMcJr

    DonMcJr New Member

    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    He said do it when the Dandelions bloom and they hive is strong enough for a split. Walk away and let them make their own queen.

    You can introduce a new queen to the hive that doesn't have a queen as long as you know what hive she is in after the split...
     
  6. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

    Messages:
    6,487
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    he is timing the event to the front side of the spring flow. you would need to decide THEN to either add a laying queen or not since any split that did not generate a queen would have laying workers by the time you knew the unit had not successfully generated a new queen. one side of the split will continue to grow in population and the other side's growth curve will be flat for some period of time. with the splitting timed to the front side of the season nectar flow failure to monitor the side that still has the queen and adding space when necessary could lead to that side of the split swarming.
     
  7. DonMcJr

    DonMcJr New Member

    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well my plan is to use this and let them make their own queen naturally. I wanna see if it works and feel the accomplishment after it works.

    So using that method, should I do it before the Dandelions bloom so they make a queen sooner?

    Also these are the 2 hives 4 feet from each other that the bees are taking honey from the deadout to their hive...will that make any difference?

    I am packaging 2 new hives in addition to this split April 21st if that has some relavence as far as drones to mate with. I know there's some other BeeKeepers withing 4 miles so there should be drones around to mate.

    I can get a Queen but the hive that Survived I believe the Queen is a Minnesota Hygentic Queen and the new bees and my deadout were Italians...

    Here's a link about the Minnesota Hygenic Queen http://www.glenn-apiaries.com/minn.html
     
  8. DonMcJr

    DonMcJr New Member

    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  9. Daniel Y

    Daniel Y New Member

    Messages:
    742
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This method would not work for my hive presently. the brood nest is in both boxes for the two boxes onto two boxes example. It would result in brood being separated in frames 12, 13, 18, 20. Now I could just alter it to keep all frames of honey to the outside.

    It also results in no frame being next to any other frame is was originally built next to.

    Can anyone explain to me why you would not simply split the brood in half placing frames 4,5,6 in one box and 7 and 8 in another?

    Depending on the strength of the split I would make this change for the one box to two example.

    I woudl place frame one in the number two position leaving an empty frame between frame one and three. On the other side of the brood cluster I would also move frame 9 to the eighth position again placing an empty frame in the seventh position.
     
  10. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

    Messages:
    6,487
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    a snip..
    So using that method, should I do it before the Dandelions bloom so they make a queen sooner?

    tecumseh...
    there is some botanical specimen that should signal the run up to your first nectar flow. no matter when you time this 'logically' nothing will get the job accomplished sooner. either yea or nay but not sooner and not later.
     
  11. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

    Messages:
    6,487
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    another snip...
    Can anyone explain to me why you would not simply split the brood in half

    tecumseh..
    that is pretty much what I would do and more importantly allow for some equal distribution of food resources in each side of the splits.
     
  12. pturley

    pturley New Member

    Messages:
    419
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    One tip I was given was to be sure the queen-right box gets plenty of open frames during a split (including undrawn frames). This should help prevent swarming by making sure they have lots of space to fill.
     
  13. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

    Messages:
    6,487
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    a pturley snip..
    One tip I was given was to be sure the queen-right box gets plenty of open frames during a split

    tecumseh...
    yes (although I would not advise using undrawn frame for a number of reasons)..... invariable if you do a lot of splitting you will encounter combs that have absolutely nothing in them (no brood, no pollen and largely almost dry it is a good idea to place one or two of these empties up next to the brood frames. if you have enough adult bees you can even insert these in amongst the brood frames. this is essentially what you do in a standard manipulation referred to as 'opening up the brood nest'. If you were using a mated queen for the other side of the split you could also set this side of the split in much the same fashion.
     
  14. lazy shooter

    lazy shooter New Member

    Messages:
    649
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The geometry of this method really tweaks the math side of me.
     
  15. DonMcJr

    DonMcJr New Member

    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Now I'm not so sure I even need to do a Split... Monday the good hive had a ton of Bees taking orientation flights and the hive I thought I lost looked at least half as busy...wasn't around today to look so tomorrow I will have to check again when I add more Sugar Syrup to the feeders...
     
  16. Omie

    Omie New Member

    Messages:
    2,845
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If one doesn't want to do a 1/2 and 1/2 split, you can always just take out the queen and make a 5 frame nuc,leaving most of the main hive really strong.