Drone Layer or Laying Workers?

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by PerryBee, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    I've got a hive that has apparently gone bad. I have found tons of drone brood being raised, a fairly decent pattern I might add, looking much like worker brood pattern in a normal hive. I can only find single eggs in cells, nothing stuck on the sides, most right on the bottom of the cells. I would swear this hive has a drone layer but for the life of me I cannot find her. I have thoroughly gone through this hive twice (on 2 separate days) but nadda! I guess it must be laying workers, but boy, they have their act together to lay in that pattern.
    What's my best approach? If I had found the queen I was going to pinch and replace, but given it might be workers, just shake em out if front of some other hives?
     
  2. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Put the new queen in a hive, excluder on top,and shake all bees onto the excluder. Once you find her, you can put them all in the box they were in, if there is any worker brood. If not, freeze it for 24 hours, then put them back. No reason to feed all drone brood.
     

  3. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    You figure a drone layer versus laying workers too Iddee?
     
  4. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    perry,
    i would have to say from my own experience, a drone layer......with "single eggs, and fairly decent pattern." i would do what iddee said, you will find her then.....:grin:
     
  5. Wolfer

    Wolfer New Member

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    I recently had one I couldn't find. I didn't have any newspaper so just set one box on another hive and did the same with the bottom box. A week later both hives were queen rite. I guess the bees sorted it out.
    I feel this might be somewhat risky but I had picked up about 40 stingers looking for the queen and I lose some of my concern for their welfare. Woody
     
  6. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    I don't try to figure when it's so easy to know for sure.
     
  7. Lburou

    Lburou Member

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    I know that feeling! ;)
     
  8. ApisBees

    ApisBees Active Member

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    Do you have access to a caged queen? Or are you using a queen that you have raised and is laying in a nuc?
    re-queening with a caged queen do as Iddee told you. if it is a nuc queen transfer the nuc into a full super and shake the bees off the framed 20 ft away put the good frames with honey and pollen with the nuc and as Iddee said let the brood die. It is cold enough at night now leaving it in a super over night will chill and kill the brood. although the freezer will take out any Varroa that might live thru the night if it is not cold enough
     
  9. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    I bet it's more common than most of us will admit! :thumbsup::lol:

    So you folks don't think the workers will do in the new queen if done either way?
     
  10. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    If you find the queen, replace her and they will accept the new one.

    Don't find her and the new one will be dead.
     
  11. Lburou

    Lburou Member

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    :eek:fftopic:
    Perry, Apis & Iddee, I'm reading this and wondering if a variation of this process could rid a hive of a severe infestation of mites. Bee-L has an ongoing thread about treating AFB, some report using a method that was common before antibiotics that was to simply shake the bees onto new frames and foundation (then, deal with the contaminated equipment once the bees are separated from it).

    ​To treat severe varroatosis (meaning you will lose the hive without immediate, drastic measures), a beekeeper could 1) Shake the bees onto a set of mite free frames in a box without mites, 2) Treat those bees with hopguard to kill mites in the phoretic phase, 3) Freeze the frames from the shaken hive, killing brood -and mites in the brood, 4) Reintroduce those once frozen frames for clean up as you will.

    This crazy method could be used in cases of high infestation of varroa mites , paired with hopguard or some other miticide to kill the phoretic mites....... ? Certainly not feasible for a commercial operation, but, I could shake bees onto new or known varroa free equipment, kill the brood and varroa in the frames from the shaken hive, and go to the next hive for the same process. No honey production, but you might get them through the winter if you are lucky. :)

    Sorry Perry for being off topic. ;)

     
  12. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    Good points Lee. Once shaken, a quick vapourization with Oxalic acid would deal with the phoretic mites.
     
  13. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    With the number of resistant bees around today, I don't want to save a hive covered up in mites.
     
  14. Lburou

    Lburou Member

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    ​requeen?
     
  15. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    To do a shake out and requeen should work if not too late in the year. A treatment along with it would help by removing most of the adult mites.