Finally took My Video Cam out for an inspection...VIDEO!

Discussion in 'Beekeeping 101' started by DonMcJr, May 18, 2012.

  1. DonMcJr

    DonMcJr New Member

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    Well my Beehive is 5 weeks old. I finally took the video camera out with me for an inspection.

    After watching it I think I used too much smoke. Any other comments?

    Also why watching it please think about theses questions.

    Thanks for the comments and critizism!:cool:

    The bottom box still has the 2 end frames empty on each side and the 2 next to them one side is drawn. My Beekeeping friend kept telling me to put the top deep on and I actually waited longer than what he said and still it wasn't right.

    So 5 Frames not drawn in the bottom and 4 not drawn on the top.

    I am assuming next time I go in next week I should take the 2 empty frames on the ends and replace them with 2 frames that are full from as close to each end as possible. Is that the right way to fix that?

    2 more questions...

    1. There was I believe Drone Comb between the 2 boxes near the middle that pulled apart and exposed the larva. Should I have removed that comb and larve or just leave it like I did and let the bees deal with it? Didn't know what to do with it after seeing the larva exposed?

    2. The 1st Medium Honey Super. When should it go on? I have about an acre and a half of Clover that I planted for my Deer Food Plot right next to the hive and it's BIGGGER than normal clover with huge Flowers already. When should I super it? My quess from all I read is wait til the comb is like 90% Drawn or even 100%.

    That second frame I pulled out weighted alot compared to the 1st one I pulled out. Does the Broad weigh the same as Stored honey or was that stored honey/sugarsyrup with it being so heavy? It was like 8 lbs guessing...


    Now the VIDEO!
    [video=youtube_share;JzxHLMcQlW8]http://youtu.be/JzxHLMcQlW8[/video]
     
  2. dr.buzz

    dr.buzz New Member

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    In reverse order:
    Yes, brood weighs less than honey frames.

    If your super is drawn comb, it can generally go on any time, as long as the bee population is sufficient to protect it from moths and SHB, etc...
    If it's empty frames, you can add it when you have 6 or 7 drawn in the box beneath it. If you had a deep super and deep brood boxes, you could have pulled a frame or two up from the box below into the super of empty frames above, whether it's nectar or brood...both will "bait" the bees up into the super. But if you have deep brood boxes and medium honey supers, you can't really do that. I go all deep, so....Judging by 8:24 in the video, you've smoked the upper box, yet the bees in bottom box still aren't completely covering all the top bars of all the frames, so I would let the population build up before adding a second super. But hey, they must feel strong and healthy to be producing drone larvae.

    You can scrape the torn open drone comb off, I usually do. You can also leave it, I'm sure others do that. But it's also a good time to actually inspect it and see how many mites you may have in it, since mites prefer drone comb to lay in...

    Personally, I'd need madder bees to want to use that much smoke. You didn't really have the top bars covered with bees like you normally would to need to smoke them down....

    Replacing the outer undrawn with the ones closest to them is what I sometimes do. That way you aren't usually going to be disrupting the brood nest or separating brood frames from where they need to be.

    Personally, I only stick my hive tool into the long sides of the box, since the walls are thicker and there's less chance of damaging the ends where the frames sit in, but that's just me.

    At 9:10 you said you heard the queen piping in there? Did I hear that correctly? That would seem like an odd thing to hear in a 5 week old hive....Did they swarm recently or something?
     

  3. DonMcJr

    DonMcJr New Member

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    Yes the Queen was piping in the upper deep when I had it set on the top cover while inspecting the lower deep. It was a 3 lb Package hived April 15th with the Queen that came with the package.

    I have no idea why the queen was piping...don't even know why they do...I'm VERY new to bee keeping.

    also...I just took a walk around my clover field...I should be VERY Lucky...LOL!

    The Clover is a Food Plot Clover made for Deer... Whitetail Institute Imperial Clover.

    4 leaf Clover...

    [​IMG]

    5 Leaf Clover!!!!

    [​IMG]
     
  4. DonMcJr

    DonMcJr New Member

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    I just read this about Queens piping... http://wallacefamilyapiary.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/honey-bee-queen-piping-what-is-it-and-why-is-it-done/

    Now I am a bit concerned...There is no mistaking the noise was coming from the upper deep when it was sitting on the upsidedown top cover. It was so loud all I thought was she might be mad and I better put the hive back together quick... I didn't know mostly Virgin Queens do the piping. I wonder why she was doing it? Maybe I had a weak queen and they replaced her already?

    She was supposed to be marked but they goofed up the order (Bee Club) and none of the queens were marked...so I'll never really know I guess.

    I just hope all is well and I have a mated Queen Laying...
     
  5. dr.buzz

    dr.buzz New Member

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    Did you see queen cells on any frames in your inspection? What about eggs and young larvae? I couldn't tell from your video.... The first virgin queen to emerge will pipe and her sisters, still in their cells, will answer her, and she goes and kills them. That would mean that you lost a swarm and this is the new queen hatching out and killing her rivals, I would imagine. Or they superseded the queen that was put in with your package, which apparently happens often. I don't know, I've never bought a package. It would seem more likely that a new package superseded rather than swarmed, but a swarm would explain the (apparently, in my opinion) low population.

    Also, you might not be aware that you don't want to feed sugar syrup to any bees that have a super on them if you intend that super to be extracted for human consumption.
     
  6. DonMcJr

    DonMcJr New Member

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    Maybe they Superseded the original queen. I didn't check every frame but now I wish I did. There were capped brood and larvae. Everything looked good. Even as of an hour ago they are bringing in pollen like crazy. I did see one Queen cell but I thought that it was normal to have one...

    I googled Queen Piping and found this video. There's no mistaking that is what I heard and it was MUCH louder... Should I inspect the hive more throughly this weekend or let it be for a week and see what it looks like in a week?

    Here is the video I found with a Queen piping...

    [video=youtube_share;AYecvVhkpKI]http://youtu.be/AYecvVhkpKI[/video]
     
  7. Omie

    Omie New Member

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    Nice video, and nice hive! :)
    Just my two cents, but it looks a long way off from time to put on any honey supers. I would put a super on if I had about 3 or 4 times that many bees in the hive. But your area may be different. Hard to see how big or crowded the brood area was in the bottom box.
     
  8. dr.buzz

    dr.buzz New Member

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    You normally would not have a queen cell unless they are fixing to swarm or they are superseding the current queen, or creating an emergency cell because the old queen died, etc.....

    OK, so you have really not much of a population and a new virgin queen. That pretty much means that you should leave them alone except for keeping the feed on them like you are. If she was piping, she just hatched out, in 4-6 days she'll go on a mating flight, weather depending, and hopefully return and get your population going with a good brood nest soon. The hardest part for you is going to be leaving them alone, probably. But if you mess around and roll or crush her before she lays fertile eggs, the remaining bees will have nothing to create a new queen with, and your colony will poop the bed, so to speak. (You may know that they can only raise a new queen with eggs or larvae younger than three days old. Whatever larvae you saw on your inspection was probably older than that already, so you want this queen to get mated and start laying.) Your population is in trouble, in my opinion, because it looked low to start with, and you wouldn't even expect to see eggs from the new queen for a few weeks. So your foragers are dying everyday without the normal replacements coming up behind them. Even when she starts laying, you have another three weeks before they even emerge, and they are nurse bees for three weeks before they mature to become foragers, so you are looking at quite a while before you have new foragers helping out. In a pinch, nurse bees can mature faster than normal and become foragers, but still............

    If it was me, I'd get some capped brood from a donor hive in there to stabilize the population. I get the impression that this is your only hive, so you might need to make some calls.
     
  9. farmall 140

    farmall 140 New Member

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    Nice video don maybe just a little to much smoke for a minute there I thought you were doing your best impression of the polar express:rolling: no seriously I have no room to talk just joking great video. You might want to put an entrance reducer in your hive just so your girls dont have to big an opening to defend until they get their numbers up. And you might also think about pulling your bottom board out this weekend if you have a screen with the temps headed to the 80s they will need the ventilation I have my daughter pulling mine tomorrow morning. We did a hive inspection wensday nite before we left and our strong hive already has 6 1/2 frames pulled since sunday afternoon but were gonna wait till we get home on the 26thscreen to add the second deep that way they should have the first deep about full. The other hive which is a little younger with less bees was just starting to draw comb on the 6th frame on wensday nite but they were taking more syrup than the strong hive. The weak hive has a 1 1/2 inch entrance reducer in it just due to the smaller population but both hives seem to be doing awesome cant wait till we get home to see how they are.
     
  10. farmall 140

    farmall 140 New Member

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    After reading dr buzz post let me know if you may need a frame of brood I am close and I think I can spare one from my stong hive but I wont be back till the 26th. But let me know if you need the help.:thumbsup:
     
  11. DonMcJr

    DonMcJr New Member

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    Thanks Farmall! I'll let you know. I really think there's a mated queen or was one though cause I am pretty sure there are more bees than it looks... Alot of them were out collecting cause it was around noon...
     
  12. dr.buzz

    dr.buzz New Member

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    Oh, yeah, if you have open brood, you had a laying queen recently....if you have a piping virgin queen you can't safely assume that you still do. Rarely an old queen will get superseded and nobody gets around to killing her, so you might have a rare two queen hive. But unless you see eggs, it's not a good bet at all. And if she was a good laying queen, they probably wouldn't have replaced her.

    In any case, your foragers are dying at around 1,000 a day, which is normal. This time of year a queen should be laying over 1,000 eggs a day, at least as far north as you are. (They've slowed down egg laying here because we are mid-flow.) This is a shot from your video at the 7:32 mark. It's your bottom brood box.

    donmcjrbees.jpg

    In my opinion, this population with a new queen that just hatched today is going to struggle. I understand that foragers were out when this video was shot, and it doesn't matter. Hopefully other folks who might not have the time to watch the whole video will weigh in after seeing this pic. But you have 3 weeks until you would expect new queen to begin laying, and 3 weeks til those emerge as nurse bees, and 3 weeks til those nurse bees become foragers. That's 63 days. Your foragers are dying at about 1,000 a day. In my opinion, you simply do not have 63,000 bees in that hive to lose. I don't just mean you can't spare that amount of bees, I mean you do not currently possess 63,000 bees in that colony (even counting the missing foragers not in this pic.) In my opinion.

    Edit to add: Don't trust my math on a Friday night, if I'm wrong someone will hopefully correct me.
     
  13. DonMcJr

    DonMcJr New Member

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    Ok so I should have 60,000 Bees at 5 Weeks after hiving a package of about 10,000? Just a question...and man there are Honey Bees all over pollenating when I walk around my property and compared to last year with no hive it's like tenfold...
     
  14. DonMcJr

    DonMcJr New Member

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    Ok here's the clip of when I thought the Queen was Piping...(is that PIPing or PIPEing?)

    Turn the sound way up, it was loud to me so I think it's the " Chip...Chip...Chip..Chip" amongst the birds chirping in the backround. You can almost see me stop moving the smoker when I really heard it.

    What I am hoping is it was a redwing Blackbird right by the box that I didn't see...

    Opinions?

    The short video...

    [video=youtube_share;HVMogC060j8]http://youtu.be/HVMogC060j8[/video]
     
  15. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    The good Dr. is going to get mad at me about this math thing. Better wait until monday again, dr. Only foragers die at that rate.Bees that stay in the hive may live for months. If all hives lost 1000 a day, a 3lb. package, about 12000 bees, would all be dead before the first new bee emerged in 23 or more days after installation. If his hive is well fed and the bees don't have to convert to foragers at a younger age, it should make it fine.
     
  16. dr.buzz

    dr.buzz New Member

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    No no, not at all. I am always fully aware that I am likely to be wrong, that's why I was hoping someone else would double check my advice.
    I have never bought a package, so I'm completely ignorant about that. But if I had his population with a brand new (virgin) queen in a new 5 week old colony, I'd be sure to arrange some capped brood over the next few weeks.
    The only bees I was aware of that could live for months were Winter bees that had not been exposed to brood pheromone. My understanding was that, based on relatively recent (new to me anyway) research, the last batch of brood before Winter was extremely important to Spring buildup, as it had been discovered that it was lack of exposure to brood pheromone that enabled Winter bees to live longer. Therefore, a queen raised after June 23 (change of days) would lay strongly going into Fall, as opposed to an older queen that had laid eggs all Spring and would slow down afterwards. So, in my understanding, if the last brood to emerge before Winter is a large population and not exposed to any other brood pheromone, you'll have less Winter die off and stronger Spring starting population.

    As far as foragers dying off. My understanding is that, based on a conversation I had with Dr. Huang (professor of apiculture, MSU) after reading an article of his, it's foragers that retard the maturation of nurse bees by feeding them ethyl oleate. The nurse bees feed the forager vitellogenin (protein) every time the forager returns to the hive with stores. Just enough vitellogenin to make another trip. At the same time, the foragers give the nurse bee some ethyl oleate. That's the feedback mechanism: As foragers die off, nurse bees receive no more ethyl oleate, which allows them to mature to become foragers sooner, which means they will die sooner.

    On the other hand, like you say, they can't start dying off at 1,000 a day immediately, because they have to become foragers first to start dying at that rate.

    I'm happy if more experienced folks can override my "worst case scenario" advice. No point worrying if it's not necessary....
     
  17. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Someone once said, the only sure thing about bees is, "there are no sure things about bees." I completely agree with that statement.

    Although your post above may be 100% correct, it is not ""the only possibility"". It has also been reported in studies that adult bees eat only carbohydrates for themselves. Only nurse bees eat pollen to make royal jelly for the young. Adult bees in a package can live on sugar water alone.

    Bees are very adaptable. That's why they are so fascinating.
     
  18. dr.buzz

    dr.buzz New Member

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    They say a little information can be dangerous. I've always worried that I let myself be too influenced by scientific articles that I probably don't even understand. If you are right, it will make my life easier. I'd rather feed nucs and weaker hives sugar syrup and spend less time stealing capped brood from other colonies to beef up their numbers if I don't need to.
     
  19. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Those articles have to be taken with a grain..."ton"... of salt. One will say adult bees live for six months, proven in cold climates. Others say they live only a few weeks, proven in mid summer.

    Both have been proven to be true beyond any doubt. Many other similar scenarios.
     
  20. Omie

    Omie New Member

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    It's totally a bird chirping at that moment! I get that chip chip chip in my backyard all the time! I think it's a sparrow or a blackbird. Most definitely NOT a piping queen. I know that particular bird sound very well.