First time to use my Maxant 3100P will be this afternoon and I have a question

Discussion in 'Beekeeping 101' started by bamabww, May 31, 2012.

  1. bamabww

    bamabww New Member

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    I put the stand together this afternoon and washed it out according to the instructions. But there is one item in the instructions I don't understand (in bold).
    Here's what it says:

    "Once you have loaded your frames, start the speed control in VAR mode. Slowly turn the dial CW spinning slowly. Reposition your frames if out of balance. After 3 or 4 minutes you may gradually increase the speed. Once honey flow has started you may flip the switch over to full speed to complete extracting. We recommend extracting in full speed mode no sooner than 8 minutes after initial startup."

    I would hope I'd be done extracting before 8 minutes and not have to wait 8 minutes after the initial start until I could go full speed. Have I misunderstood that or what does that mean?

    I'd appreciate any advice whether I understand it or not.
     
  2. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

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    The "motor" that cranks my extractor get tired well short of 8 minutes. And it rests for a moment each time I turn the frames around for extracting the other side. But, when I'm finished, I always have residual honey left in the combs and I have to return the combs to the hives for cleaning by the bees.
    I have no experience with motorized, radial extractors, but from what I have read, they can extract every bit of the honey and totally dry out the cells. At the beginning, while the majority of the honey is still in the cells, full speed could apply forces that might damage the combs. I guess it requires 8 inutes of lower speed work to reach the point where full speed extracting won't cause damage. This would be particularly true of newly built combs. Older combs that have been strengthened by having had brood raised in them could probably be extracted at full speed earlier.
    In the end, you'll get enough experience to decide for yourself to what extent you need to stick to this recommendation.
     

  3. Papakeith

    Papakeith New Member

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    It could be that they are worried about comb damage. Or, it could be that there is a break in cycle for the motor. It might be worth a call to the mfg. for clarification on this one.
     
  4. indypartridge

    indypartridge New Member

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    Give Jake at Maxant a call, and let us know what he says.

    I do know that it takes considerably longer to extract radially than tangentially.
     
  5. Eddy Honey

    Eddy Honey New Member

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    This is what we did:

    Load frames
    Open honey gate:
    Place bucket with strainer under honey gate:
    Plug in machine:
    Flip switch to VAR mode (to the right):
    SLOWLY turn dial clockwise until it is spinning.
    I increased the speed in 4 or 5 increments until I reached full power.

    I think in 8 minutes we were done and the combs were fine except for the ones I "learned" to use the uncapping knife with lol.
     
  6. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    The 3100 is not a radial extractor, it is tangential. While I am not sure, I would think if you ran it up to full speed early you might end up blowing out somw comb?
     
  7. Walt B

    Walt B New Member

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    I think some of the 3100 is tangential (3 frames) and some is radial (6 frames), but there's a reasonable chance that I am wrong. I seem to recall Jake explaining it on another forum.

    Walt
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2012
  8. pturley

    pturley New Member

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    I read this as meaning 8 minutes OR LESS if run at less than full speed.

    It is likely due to the design of the triac/potentiometer circuit. If this is indeed the circuit design used. It is one of the most common and simple types of variable speed/voltage control circuits!

    If used, then there is a triac and a fairly sizable bank of ceramic resistors on a large heat-sink in the controller. This is used in the triac circuit to "burn-off" the excess voltage as heat, thereby cutting the motor speed.

    Running at half speed for an extended time means these resistors may overheat, loosing resistance as a result.

    When running at full speed, the resistors are not energized.

    EDIT: Wow, all that technical detail and I actually READ THE INSTRUCTIONS WRONG!
    On re-reading these, I would think it means wait the full 8 minutes before switching over to high speed. To hazard another guess (as an engineer), I would think this has to do with balance and lightening the frame load (potential energy should it come unbalanced) to preserve the shaft bearings.
     
  9. Murrell

    Murrell New Member

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    A word of caution I' sure you know.
    Be sure and bolt down legs, it will jump around ,

    Murrell
     
  10. Slowmodem

    Slowmodem New Member

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    This thread is very timely, as I am going to put mine together today. :) (although I probably won't extract until Saturday)
     
  11. Eddy Honey

    Eddy Honey New Member

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    If it jumps around you've done something wrong or there is something wrong with the machine.
    Ours is very smooth at all speeds and not bolted down.
    It does medium and shallows radially and/or 3 deeps tangential.
    I hope to wear this machine out someday. That'll just mean my bees have made TONS of honey!! :grin:
     
  12. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

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    Frames need to be balanced for smooth operation. Heavy frames should be opposite each other, light frames should be opposite each other. You CAN extract heavy and light frames in the same loading, but you must balance them for smooth operation.

    May all your frames be heavy and require no special balancing. :amen:
     
  13. Murrell

    Murrell New Member

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    I know, it's time to stay in the back of the bus more & more !

    Murrell
     
  14. bamabww

    bamabww New Member

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    I took your advice and here's what Jake said, " start the extractor slowly and run it for 2 or 3 minutes very gradually increasing the speed. If everything is balanced the extractor will be smooth running. Gradually increase the speed and after about 8 minutes you should be about 3/4 full speed. Turn the speed switch from VAR (variable) to Full Speed and let it run for another 4 to 6 minutes."
    I said, "I was thinking I'd be finished in 8 minutes or less."
    Jake replied, " no, it should take you between 12 and 16 minutes to extract 6 medium frames." I thanked him and he wished me good luck and encouraged me to call back if I had any questions.

    He also said with some experience I'd know when I could speed it up or need to slow it down. I enjoyed talking with him and glad I gave him my business.

    I'll try to post some pictures later of my frames after extracting. Of the first 3, 1 survived intact, one lost about a 1/4 of the comb and one was a total loss.

    The honey was clearer than my first batch and tasted delicious, of course. Thanks for all your advice and suggestions.
     
  15. Slowmodem

    Slowmodem New Member

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    Well, I was kind of disappointed this evening. I ordered the hand-cranked extractor and the power conversion kit so that I could extract under any circumstances. There's a ring with a rubber insert that connects to the shaft and the motor has a connector that fits into that ring. Well, the ring isn't drilled out quite enough to fit on the shaft. :( We tried for about 30 minutes to get it to work. I tried greasing the shaft, tapping the ring onto the shaft, etc., with no success. I guess I'll just have to call them in the morning. I may end up hand cranking the honey this weekend. If so, I'll really appreciate the motor when I get it working! I'll keep y'all posted.
     
  16. bamabww

    bamabww New Member

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    Perry, the instruction sheet says it is radial for medium frames and tangential for deep frames.
     
  17. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    Oops! Does that mean I was partly right? :oops: :doh: Close? :lol: I just looked at the picture on their website and it looked like a tangential, didn't read far enough I guess.
    Jake is a great guy to deal with. I bought a bottling tank and had shipping hassles, he dealt with it to my satisfaction. :thumbsup:
    Sorry to hear about your extractor problem Greg, call Jake and he'll take care of you.