greenbelting property with an apiary

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by 2kooldad, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. 2kooldad

    2kooldad New Member

    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have herd that you can greenbelt property in florida with an apiary...does anybody know if this is true an what the requirments might be ???
     
  2. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

    Messages:
    5,829
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hey 2kooldad, good you see you again. I know nothing about greenbelts in Florida but I bet Zookeep would.
     

  3. ApisBees

    ApisBees Active Member

    Messages:
    2,060
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    this program could be benifishal to some of you and save you some tax dollars. It could allow the building of farm use buildings with out the need of a permit. Florida was the second state in the nation to adopt a use-value assessment program for agricultural land (1959). Currently, every state, except Michigan, has adopted some form of use-value assessment.[SUP]3[/SUP] Because of its wide-scale adoption, use-value assessment is the most widely used technique in the United States today for maintaining land in agricultural production.

    http://sumtercountyfl.gov/DocumentView.aspx?DID=26

    http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fe890

    http://www.floridafarmbureau.org/files/resources/issues/GreenbeltQ_A.pdf
     
  4. Americasbeekeeper

    Americasbeekeeper New Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Green belt or Ag exemtion is different for each county. The suggested and common rules are
    The first acre or more for multiple dwellings is residential.
    There must be a whole acre or more additional devoted to agriculture.
    You must maintain two hives per acre.
    Some areas may require a registered honey house but remind them you can sell bees and queens without selling honey. Additionally Florida Food Safety does not require an inspected honey facility for less than $15,000 of farm product sales.
    The rules were tightened up when welfare babies started claming ag exemption for raising hay in vacant fields when they reallly do not harvest hay or have the equipment to if they wanted to.
     
  5. 2kooldad

    2kooldad New Member

    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks ABK....thats the first useful answer ive heard on this subject in 3 years...an ive been looking...do they have to be full hives or will nucs also do...if im selling bees then id most likely have parent hives an lots of nucs for sale...i have 30 acers an half is wetlands so the other 15 is what im concerned about mostly. Good to be back snowman...computer is still down but i got a new phone...they say its smart...i say its smart enuff to piss me of an the rest is questionable...lol
     
  6. Americasbeekeeper

    Americasbeekeeper New Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have not met a taxman that knows the difference between nucs and hives.
     
  7. Zookeep

    Zookeep Active Member

    Messages:
    1,252
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    hey ABK I have a question along these lines, I have a store that wants jars but wanna put there own label on them, do I still need a inspected honey house for that? nowhere near $15k either
     
  8. 2kooldad

    2kooldad New Member

    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks again...an by the way...congrats on the new job (i havent seen you since bee class.
     
  9. Bees In Miami

    Bees In Miami New Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Zookeep...Here is the Cottage Food Law for honey in FL...

    http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/in918

    Maybe if you put your name & address on a small label on the back, along with the Cottage Food label, then their label far more prominent on the front?? It doesn't look like you can totally 'private label' the honey, and not be inspected. JMO.

    Americas Beekeeper...Any progress on the new regulations for FL Bee Keepers and removals and such? I know pesticides are banned for us, but beyond that? Thanks! You are most helpful!!
     
  10. Americasbeekeeper

    Americasbeekeeper New Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You cannot sell from an unlicensed facility except from your back door, flea markets, and farmers markets. It must be you, the registered beekeeper, not an employee selling also. Do not get caught selling in, through, or at a store. It can also generate fines and penalties for the store as well as the beekeeper, and who will pay that? Though FDACS Food Safety is very active enforcing, the federal government is getting more aggressive than the state on compliance. There is a rumor it falls under DHS, making the perp a terrorist.
    Thanks, I actually made it to USFBG for the January class. Brent has it well in hand.
    There was a meeting last week to keep the swarms and feral colony removal going. A lawyer also showed up. I preferred the PCOs comments more than the lawyer. Barring any more delaying tactics it will be implemented in 180 days or less.
     
  11. Bees In Miami

    Bees In Miami New Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Americasbeekeeper: Thanks so much for your straight forward answers. It's nice to get solid info to work with! Thanks, and looking forward to updates. :thumbsup:
     
  12. 2kooldad

    2kooldad New Member

    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Bee removal laws ?!?! Wow...this last stretch without my internet has really kept me out of the loop. What happened...the last thing i remember was the rumor that we wouldn't be able to charge for getting bees out of peoples houses....now we've got meetings an lawyers an new regs.....spose i should ask...what new regs...anybody got a link ??
     
  13. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

    Messages:
    3,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If the Government was as vigilant of the crap coming into the US of A as it is of people trying to start a buisness, we would not have shb,mites, zoombie fly's, ect. Not that keeping an eye on what we eat is a bad thing, it just seems they work harder on the wrong end of things. Jack
     
  14. Americasbeekeeper

    Americasbeekeeper New Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Notice of Development of Rulemaking
    DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND CONSUMER SERVICES
    Division of Agricultural Environmental Services
    RULE NO.: RULE TITLE:
    5E-14.151 Removal and Relocation of Live Bees from Structures
    PURPOSE AND EFFECT: The purpose of this rulemaking is to exempt live bee removal from the performance of
    pest control. The effect of this rulemaking will provide beekeepers authority to perform live bee removals in, on, or
    under structures without the need for licensure.

    SUBJECT AREA TO BE ADDRESSED: Removal and relocation of bees.
    RULEMAKING AUTHORITY: 482.051, 570.07(23), 586.10 FS.
    LAW IMPLEMENTED: 570.02(1), 482.021(21) and (22), 586.10 FS.
    A RULE DEVELOPMENT WORKSHOP WILL BE HELD AT THE DATE, TIME AND PLACE SHOWN
    BELOW:
    DATE AND TIME: January 17, 2013, 10:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m.
    PLACE: Doyle Conner Building, 1911 S.W. 34th Street, Rm: Auditorium, Gainesville, FL 32608; (352)395-4700.
    THE PERSON TO BE CONTACTED REGARDING THE PROPOSED RULE DEVELOPMENT AND A COPY
    OF THE PRELIMINARY DRAFT, IF AVAILABLE, IS: Michael J. Page, Chief of Bureau of Entomology and Pest
    Control, 3125 Conner Boulevard, Ste N, MS C-41, Tallahassee, Florida, 32399-1650, (850)617-7988;
    Michael.Page@FreshFromFlorida.com.
    THE PRELIMINARY TEXT OF THE PROPOSED RULE DEVELOPMENT IS:
    5E-14.151 Removal and Relocation of Live Bees from Structures.
    (1) The removal and relocation of bees by a beekeeper registered pursuant to Section586.045, F.S., from a
    structure, lawn, or ornamental for the principal purpose of facilitating the production of honey or the
    pollination of plants or crops shall not be considered pest control.
    Comments:
    · Would like to add language that allows employees of beekeepers to remove bees without every employee
    having to become a registered beekeeper.
    · In the event employees are permitted to remove bees without being a registered beekeeper, we could add a
    provision requiring the registered beekeeper to be present during the removal. This would also allow people
    to be trained without being a beekeeper.
    · Concern that requiring everyone performing bee removals to be a registered beekeeper will be a barrier to
    training people to perform bee removals in the future.Department notes the minimal requirements for
    becoming a registered beekeeper make this unlikely.
    · Some would like to add an insurance requirement.
    (2) The use of foam or soapy water, pheromone lures, attractants, repellants, and glue boards to control
    bees by a registered beekeeper when he or she is removing and relocating bees from a structure, lawn,
    or ornamental for the principal purpose of facilitating the production of honey or the pollination of
    crops shall not be considered pest control.
    Comments:
    · Some would like more explicit language that the removal of bees under these conditions is an exemption
    from the pest control requirements. Others would like to clarify that the use of these products is for
    emergencies only.
    · MB: Comments regarding need for training and insurance show that bee removal should be regulated as
    pest control. Then we could make rules that specifically address the training of bee removers. Also,
    suggests bee removers partner with pest control companies for training—could work as ID cardholders for
    purposes of getting trained.
    · Leo: The discussion is moving backward. Prefers a rule that allows bee removal without the requirements
    of pest control.
    · No mention of vacuums. Some would like to see “mechanical devices” included in the list.
    · Leo: Will water be included. MP: yes water may be used under this rule.
    · Need clarification on what is meant by “soap.” PCOs are required to use insecticidal soap because they
    cannot use unregistered products, but here we are allowing other people to use an unregistered product,
    such as Dawn dish soap? Some would like the only soap allowed to be insecticidal soap. Wanna bet this gets put in the new laws since the PCO want it?
    · Soap used more for clean up than for controlling bees. MP: What is used for clean-up is not at issue. Here
    we are concerned with what is used for control during the removal process.
    · General consensus that soapy water is not effective in an explosive situation.
    · Ari: Would be better to use a catch-all phrase for what is allowed rather than a limiting, specific list.
    (3) It shall be considered pest control if bees are removed from a structure, lawn, or ornamental for the
    principal purpose of controlling or eliminating bees as a pest or the removal is conducted by a person
    not a beekeeper registered pursuant to Section 586.045, F.S.
    Comments:
    · Some take exception to the use of the term “pest” when describing bees; however, the term is used in this
    context as it is defined in statute (482.021, Florida Statutes).
    · Again, becoming a registered beekeeper should then carry a training requirement.
    · Concern regarding how the terms “controlling” and “eliminating” will be interpreted. Some would like the
    term “controlling” removed from the language because the bees are, in a sense, being controlled when they
    are removed from a structure.
    · Ari: This is a regulation based on outcomes when we should be regulating the activity itself. There is an
    inherent administrative difficulty in regulating intent.
    · Concern that the rule creates an unfair advantage for beekeepers. This section will allow beekeepers with a
    true intent to kill bees to do so under the pretense that they are performing removals.
    · May be anti-competitive and therefore unconstitutional—Results in rewards for some parts of the industry,
    but not others.
    · Some would like to leave structural removals in the GHP category.
    · Some would like to just remove this “intent” language.
    · Questions regarding whether beekeepers will be able to kill “foul broods.” Beekeepers would like to be
    able to destroy these when they are encountered. Suggested that this issue be addressed in subsection (2).
    (4) The use of any chemical other than those described above in (2) to control or eliminate bees in, on, or
    under
    a structure, lawn, or ornamental shall be considered pest control.
    Comments:
    · Beekeepers do not want to use chemicals.
    · Broaden subsection 2 as discussed so that it is a non-exhaustive list.
    · What about the use of “play sand”? MP: Not at issue because it is not used to kill the bees and is not a
    chemical.
    · Need for liability insurance reiterated.
    · Approximately 75% of attendees would like to see a liability insurance requirement for beekeepers for
    purposes of protecting the public.
    (5) The removal and relocation of bees from a structure must be reported, within 72 hours of the removal to
    the
    Bureau of Entomology and Pest Control, 3125 Conner Blvd, Suite N, Tallahassee, FL 32399-1650
    using the form entitled Live Bee Removal Record, FDACS-13690, (Rev. 12/12), which is hereby
    adopted and incorporated by reference and available online at
    http://www.flrules.org/Gateway/reference.
    · Question regarding the definition of a structure—are play grounds included. * Structure is defined in
    482.021, Florida Statutes.
    · Who will receive the info?—Will be collected by the Bureau of Entomology and Pest Control.
    Why can’t we “beekeepers’ get information on where every AHB has been found in this state and how many have been killed?
    · How to report if the removal is from a tree? MP: we are interested in those hives removed from structures,
    lawns and ornamentals. An address will be sufficient—do not need to know which tree the hive was taken
    from.
    · Need clarification for failure to submit the form. Some would like the form to be optional. DS: Failure to
    use form will mean the bee keeper is performing pest control (not meeting the requirements for the
    exemption).
    · 72 hour requirement is too burdensome. 30 days for submission is more reasonable.
    · Would like to be able to submit electronically—similar to fumigation notices.
    · Some would like to report multiple removals for one customer on one form—ie. 3000 hives removed for a
    local government could be put on one form.
    · Form should require disclosure of the number of removals from each address.
    Rulemaking Authority 482.051, 570.07(23), 586.10 FS. Law Implemented 570.02(1), 482.021(21), (22), 586.10 FS.
    History–New_________.
    GENERAL COMMENTS:
    · Ari: Legal issue with creating an exception to what is defined in statute. DACS is reinterpreting 482 to
    redefine pest control. This creates a constitutional, separation of powers issue. DACS is doing the bidding
    of one segment of the industry. Government may not favor one industry or limit competition.
    · DrK: Do we need an education requirement? If so, what should be required?
    o 80% of group would like to see an education or training requirement
    o Include safety, construction training, electrical safety issues
    o Training should be a requirement for registration, registration should have more requirements
    · More on need for insurance requirement:
    o Minimum insurance requirements should be the same as pest control
    o Leo: small bee keepers do not need insurance
    · More on beekeeper registration—only costs $10 to register with DPI; creates unfair competition for pest
    control when it is so easy to become registered
    · DS: Should the rule specify “honey bees” instead of just “bees”?
    o Beekeepers tend to not want specification
    o Pest Control tends to want the type of bee specified
    o Why would bees other than honey bees be removed? Some beekeepers do remove and relocate
    bumble bees, carpenter bees, etc.
    · MB: suggested wording: "Any act of controlling or eliminating bees by any means or method other than
    live removal by a registered beekeeper from a structure, lawn or ornamental shall be considered as pest
    control as defined in Chapter 482.021" That is all we need. If they are on site to REMOVE LIVE BEES- it
    is up to the beekeeper. If the hive "explodes" they can do what ever they want- it is not pest control. If
    they are there to kill bees, it’s pest control. Period. They can seek an ID card.
    o "The act of controlling or eliminating bees by any means or method other than live removal from
    a structure, lawn or ornamental shall be consideredpest control".