Help, Need Guidance and Information With My Trap-Out!

Discussion in 'Swarms, Cut outs, and Trap outs' started by BeerDaddy, Jun 29, 2011.

  1. BeerDaddy

    BeerDaddy New Member

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    I am in the process of doing a trap-out on a 2 year established in the side of house here at Spring, Tx.

    I used newspaper to block off all of the entrances except one, which i hooked a 1 1/4 PVC tube to and then connected the tube to the bottom of the TBH hive.

    I connected the tube up by itself for one day, then the next day hooked the end of the tube to the TBH. The first day the tube by itself worked well, with lots of traffic in and out of the hive.

    But, then when i hooked it up to the TBH on the bottom board, the bee's stopped using the tube.

    I have smeared Lemongrass oil in the TBH, the tube is level from the house to the TBH with a 90 deg elbow going up into the TBH from the transfer tube.

    I pulled the house faceplate loose and there are lots of bee's at the connection of the tube to the house.

    Is this normal to see little traffic going into the TBH on the first few days?

    Any and all comments welcome!
     
  2. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    uuhh that is not what "I" would call a trap out, you merely extended the entrance out to the end of the pipe. Very doubtful they will move into the TBH.

    Go to the "swarms, trap out and cut out" section to see what a trap out looks like. It will take a minimum of 30 to 45 day to complete, and you will need a frame of eggs to get them started again.
     

  3. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    When you get to "swarms, trap out and cut out", there are two sticky topics at the top of the page. One is titled, "So you want to do a trap out". Read all five links in that thread and then watch the video. What you are doing will never get you anything more than honey, if that.
     
  4. BeerDaddy

    BeerDaddy New Member

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    My intention is to force them to build comb and honey in the TBH first, as it will be the place where they will be landing to get into the established hive.

    I have experience with doing trap-outs as described in this forum, but i am trying to develop a "New" way to do trap-outs for beginning beekeepers who do not have a Brood tray full of bee's.

    I think that when the queen does decide to leave, she will exit the tube into the new hive and with drawn comb and honey, stop, look around and take up residence.

    My Questions are:
    1. What do you think my chances are of this working?
    2. And what is the possibility of the workers storing all new honey/pollen in the TBH and the queen/established hive running out of stores and starving?
    3. If the workers do build new comb and honey on the TBH frames, could i introduce a New Queen into the TBH and have the workers accept them?

    This is a experiment, so all critics, na-sayers, constructive critisism, and all other comments are welcome!
     
  5. BeerDaddy

    BeerDaddy New Member

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    Call me crazy, but if i can get this to work it will simplify the trap-out process!

    Has "Anyone" ever attempted to do this as i have described, or am i the only "Out of My Mind" beekeeper in this world!??
     
  6. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    It has been attempted for at least a hundred years. The bees will see it as a super and use it only when the house space is full. The queen has no reason to leave.

    Plug up all the holes and make one 20 feet away. They will use the entrance 20 feet away for years and never store food and move closer to the entrance.
     
  7. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    Kelley's sells what is called a swarm harvester, similar to what you are ttalking about, only difference is there is a bee escape in the tube to not allow the bees to re-enter the original hive.
     
  8. BeerDaddy

    BeerDaddy New Member

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    G3Farms - your idea about introducing a "New Queen" to the TBH after the workers have started using the TBH as a super, and thus getting the "Old Queen" to come out of the established hive may be the key to making this work!

    I wonder if after the "New Queen" establishes itself in the TBH whether the workers would start "Salvage" operations and remove the established hive contents to the TBH.

    I have seen a wall almost completely stripped of its contents and moved to the introduced hive box, but not with any consistent results!
     
  9. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    I say go for it and report back with your results, the only way to figure some things out is trial and error.

    And as far as the newspaper for stopping up holes the bees will remove that in short order. Just think what they do to the paper in a newspaper combine.
     
  10. BeerDaddy

    BeerDaddy New Member

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    G3Farms - Thank you very much for the information about the Kelley Bee Harvester.

    It sounds and looks like just what i am doing, only difference is they claim you can get "Hive Starts" that you would then place in a nuc and introduce a new queen or queen cell.

    I Like This Idea!

    The man who thought this up has 30 "Continous" years of beekeeping experience, so i have some faith that i am on the right track!

    Even if i only get 4 or 5 new starter hives out of this with full stores, that is not a bad deal for someone who cannot at this time afford to buy bees!
     
  11. BeerDaddy

    BeerDaddy New Member

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    Well, a big part of the colony has taken up residence in my TBH that is connected to the house thru the transfer tube.

    After taking off the lid I noticed that the bee's were on the bottom of most of the Bars in the TBH. Because each bar is coated with a thin strip bee's wax, i cannot tell if they are building comb yet.

    But, So Far So Good!

    The inside of the TBH was crawling with bee's and they were using the TBH entrance exclusively, lots of pollen foragers traffic going to and fro!

    I will post some video of the entire setup and bee's tommorrow!

    Thanks guys for the input, and hope to get more information from y'all as i progress with this experiment!
     
  12. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    Sounds good!!

    Hope they are building comb and not just robbing the wax to build comb inside of the old hive. Have watched them tear foundation to shreds to build comb out of.
     
  13. BeerDaddy

    BeerDaddy New Member

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    I agree, but the amount of wax on the bottom of each bar is just a "Smear" to give them the hint as where i want the bee's to build comb.

    If they are building comb on the TBH bars, any ideas as to how low before i see a noticeable structure?

    And do you think i should order a New Queen now?

    And how do you think i should use a new queen:
    A. To pull a few TBH frames to put in a Nuc with the new queen?
    OR
    B. Use the new queen like we talked about as "Bait" to draw out the Old Queen from the established "Hole-In-The-Wall Gang" colony?

    So many questions so little time!

    Oh yea, i went back with the video camera and got some film of the whole setup. So i will try to post the video in a few minutes!
     
  14. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    I am not a fan of the top bar hive (not trying to be negative toward what you are wanting to do just my way of thinking), so I can't be of much help with what to do. I guess I need to have a TBH just to be a more rounded beek..........nnnaaaaaa. :p

    As far as the queen goes don't know what to tell you either, untraveled territory for me.

    Keep us posted with the progress, success or failure, it is how we all learn to do different things.
     
  15. Bsweet

    Bsweet Member

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    Please keep us updated, this old dog is open to new tricks. Jim
     
  16. BeerDaddy

    BeerDaddy New Member

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    Here is the video of the TBH TrapOut "SetUp", sorry for the short video with no narration, i will be posting a new Longer video with audio narration later.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLyjIti-kXA

    Tommorrow on July 2, I will be removing the lid and checking the inside of the TBH for drawn comb on the bars, not expecting much since the experiment has been going less than a week as of June 26, 2011.

    And with the TBH only having been hooked up to the connecting tube for 4 days now, i just hoping to see a small hoop shaped drawn comb.

    And Then There Is The South Texas Drought Too!
     
  17. 100 TD

    100 TD New Member

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    Any update BeerDaddy, I have asked this same question on another forum and have been told it would not work so I am keen to see how you go.
     
  18. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    Yeah we need and update!!

    100TD welcome to the forum :wave:
     
  19. 100 TD

    100 TD New Member

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    Thanks, have been reading for a while, now registered to ask Q's.
     
  20. BeerDaddy

    BeerDaddy New Member

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    Well, here is the update. The bee's started building comb and storing honey BUT without a queen. So with the trapout tube and trap cone connected, i purchased and introduced a queen. She has been accepted by the TBH colony, BUT it did not cause the "Hole-In-Wall-Gang" queen to come out to the TBH.

    Of course, it could have happened without my noticing it. However, i am starting my second "Hive Start" this week from the source colony that is in the wall. So, i guess that the experiment is not a total loss, 2 working hives, 1 happy No-Tear Out HomeOwner, 1 Happy Beekeeper = Everybody's Happy. I will remove the second hive start in a 2 weeks and allow the bee's to "Rob Out" the "Hole-In-The-Wall-Gang".

    I have video of the new TBH hive colony with drawn comb and will be posting it this week. Appreciate very much the interest and the support. And thanks to Cleo Kelly - Kelly Bee Harvester for making his information on this process available to all beekeepers.