Hive inspections, Good news and bad.

Discussion in 'Beekeeping 101' started by Yankee11, Jul 3, 2012.

  1. Yankee11

    Yankee11 New Member

    Messages:
    625
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hive inspections, Good news (pictures)

    OK, did the inspections this afternoon. Have some good news and bad.

    Good news: The tree cut out we did last Saturday has a queen. First we were seeing lots of egs and then we found her. So they will be fine. Still feeding though. It's hot and dry here.

    Bad news: That swarm I lost Saturday was from one of our hive. It was a hive that exploded and we found about 6 queen cells in the brood box 2 weeks ago. We added an extre medium but were to late. It had probably about a third of the bees that it had 2 weeks ago.

    The other hives looked good. Brood and caped honey and bee bread and no queen cells.

    Now for our delima. We looked very close at the box that swarmed Saturday. We could not find a queen and no eggs. But there were still probably 6 or so queen cells. SO, my question is. Does the queen leave before the new queen hatches. I thought she stayed until a new quen hatches. I did remove one of the many capped queen cells. I wanted to ope it up to look. It was empty but capped.

    2012-07-03_09-31-53_868.jpg 2012-07-03_09-33-05_943.jpg 2012-07-03_09-34-32_14.jpg 2012-07-03_09-36-31_57.jpg 2012-07-03_09-36-37_565.jpg 2012-07-03_09-37-50_351.jpg 2012-07-03_09-37-55_330.jpg 2012-07-03_09-39-06_977.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  2. barry42001

    barry42001 New Member

    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    yes the old queen departs with the swarm about the time the first queen cells cap. You say the one queen cell was capped and empty? Would be nice to see a picture of what you saw, not doubting what you saw, just perhaps can glean more details out of whats perhaps being overlooked.
    Barry
     

  3. Yankee11

    Yankee11 New Member

    Messages:
    625
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have to remember to take camera. But there were several open queen cells. Looked like peanuts. Usually in pairs. Since there were so many capped and uncapped. Decided to remove a pair. Looked the capped one over carefully and there were no holes in the sides and the end was capped over. very carefully removed the end cap and it was empty.

    So, the old queen does not wait untill the new quenn is out?


    Also, what if more han one of these other queen cells hatch out. Another Swarm? Don't want to loose anymore bees from this hive.
     
  4. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

    Messages:
    3,048
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    yankee11:
    "Now for our delima. We looked very close at the box that swarmed Saturday. We could not find a queen and no eggs. But there were still probably 6 or so queen cells. SO, my question is. Does the queen leave before the new queen hatches. I thought she stayed until a new quen hatches. I did remove one of the many capped queen cells. I wanted to ope it up to look. It was empty but capped."

    yankee11, if you have a virgin queen, and most likely you do, it will take her time to mature and mate, you will not see eggs in this short time span, from saturday until today (monday). a virgin queen does not emerge from a cell and start laying right away....virgin queens are much smaller/slender, and very hard to find and easy to overlook, they run across the comb quickly, or are found on the sides of the hive or on the bottom board. a virgin queen will need a few days to mature, and mate after emergence; queens emerge about the 16th day, mature and mate another 5-8 days or more, or a week or two after emergence before she starts laying. and then 21 days after before any workers emerge.

    i would not cut any queen cells, leave them alone or you may leave them queenless with cutting cells. if you have no queen, one will emerge soon or the bees will 'make a queen'. cutting cells defeats their efforts to requeen themselves. if you have a virgin queen, and i think you do from a swarmed hive, either the virgin will take care of any queens from these cells, (sting them through the cell), or they fight it out upon emergence, or the bees decide who reigns.....

    to answer your question about whether the queen departs with the swarm before a virgin emerges.... i can only give you a partial answer to this based on my own experience, although, much of what one reads says 'after a cell is capped', i don't always believe this to be true. my mentor has said, a virgin queen may be present prior to a swarm, or ready to emerge, or as barry said when the queen cell is capped. from my own experience, i have found virgin queens in hives a day or so after a hive has swarmed, long after a cell is capped (at 8 days). this perhaps is an iddee or tec question or someone who does possess this knowledge.

    to answer your question about empty capped queen cells, this is most likely that the larvae died after the cell was capped, again, this is a tec, iddee or other member question who rears queens, however, bees don't cap empty cells.

    btw, where are the queen cells on the frames you are referring to?

    queen cells, day 1 to 3 egg, day 4 -8 larvae, day 8, cell is sealed/capped, day 16 queen emerges.
     
  5. indypartridge

    indypartridge New Member

    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    As riverbee noted, this is variable. Typically, the swarm leaves sometime during the interval between queen cells being capped and emergence of virgin queens. Much of the timing depends on weather.

    If you assume they swarmed right after swarm cells were capped, then it may be about 3 weeks before you have a mated, laying queen. If they swarmed closer to emergence, then you may have a laying queen in about 2 weeks. I've had colonies that swarmed and 3 weeks later still had no sign of a queen, so I bought one, only to discover eggs when I went to install the purchased queen a couple days later.
     
  6. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

    Messages:
    5,829
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Got the t-shirt. :roll:
     
  7. Yankee11

    Yankee11 New Member

    Messages:
    625
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    OK, Thanks everybody.

    Now I have some kind of time line and things to look for, great.

    "btw, where are the queen cells on the frames you are referring to?"
    This was a cut out and you know how the comb is broken up and wavey inside the frames, they are hanging in the middle of frames from the bottoms of pieces of comb. Where voids are from the pieces comb were not filled in.

    As far as not messing with the queen cells. I wouldn't except, in this case there were at least 6 other cells that are capped. Plus 4 or 5 that were full size but the ends were open. I'm a newbie trying to learn and am just curious as heck about these things called bees.:wink:
     
  8. HisPalette

    HisPalette New Member

    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Learning about these is fascinating and ever changing. I do know this, having more than one hive gives me a way to fix my mistakes! I have to do what my gut tells me when tending them or I can't sleep! :shock: I have tried things that have worked well, and make the yard stronger as a whole. I have an educated intent when doing things... sometimes it works, other times not. I am a big fan of taking a frame of "fresh" eggs from a strong hive and boosting a weak or queenless hive. JUST Don't take the queen! but if you do that is fixable too! (Our biggest booboo: Intended to make a split but made an "artificial swarm" accidentaly, made my favorite hive). Had one in the spring of 2012...Now, 6 hives and counting :grin:
     
  9. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

    Messages:
    3,048
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    "As far as not messing with the queen cells. I wouldn't except, in this case there were at least 6 other cells that are capped. Plus 4 or 5 that were full size but the ends were open. I'm a newbie trying to learn and am just curious as heck about these things called bees."

    a great way to learn!
     
  10. Yankee11

    Yankee11 New Member

    Messages:
    625
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Couple more pictures

    2012-07-03_09-41-11_818.jpg 2012-07-03_09-42-07_67.jpg
    There are about 6 mediums filled out identicle to this one.
    2012-07-03_09-46-07_137.jpg
     
  11. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

    Messages:
    5,162
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    some time the workers are getting so excited about a new queen emerging that they will even cap a queen cell over with a worker inside of it. The poor gal will be inside cleaning or inspecting the old queen cell and somebody will seal her in, kind of funny.

    For the most part a swarm will leave about the time a queen cell is capped over. But as with bees there is no actual definite answer. You will find mother/daughter queens in the same hive also. The best rule of thumb is to not remove the queen cells, what if they did swarm before they were capped over, could easily end up with a queenless hive.

    I see several queen cups on the first run of pics and several queen cells also. A queen that has emerged, the end of the cell will have a round hole in the end of it where it was chewed through. A queen that met her demise before she hatched will have a hole chewed in the side of it.
     
  12. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

    Messages:
    3,708
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Boosting a hive with "donations" from another, is much more effective if you transfer sealed brood. First of all, you get the added bees much sooner. Secondly (and more important) the weak hive doesn't have to "assign staff and reesources" to raise the brood and feed them--a process that makes added demands on an already weak hive. Of course, this wouldn't apply regarding a queenless hive that would need the eggs to raise a new queen.
     
  13. barry42001

    barry42001 New Member

    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    As for queen cells, lol they are on almost every frame your showing,and several capped more full length or sized. I a bit confusing pattern, as mostly emergency or supercedure cells are centrally located on the frame, these are everywhere. The race begins first one out will hunt down the other cells and then there will be one.
    Barry
     
  14. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

    Messages:
    5,829
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Really good point! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: