How to add honey supers with no queen excluder???

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by Michbeeman63, Jun 4, 2012.

  1. Michbeeman63

    Michbeeman63 New Member

    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    decided to run my good strong hive without a queen excluder "sometimes referred to as a honey excluder. I split this hive about a month ago and added a honey super when I did the split. Went to the hive this evening, and found I needed to add another super. I removed the super on the hive and added the new one above the brood leaving the empty between. My thought is that if there was any brood in the honey super it will hatch out and the queen will leave it alone and not cross the empty "combed out" super. I realized I should have checked for brood in this super, but this hive is so aggressive, I didn't want to agitate it any more than necessary. This hive is so hot I will be requeening it next year. Don't want to do it now since it is producing so well.

    Does my process of supering from the bottom make sense to prevent brood in the honey. Is there any risk to the queen by what I did. I didn't look for her, but would be she was not in the top box.

    any help or input is appreciated.
     
  2. riverrat

    riverrat New Member

    Messages:
    2,683
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    if there is not a honey band across the top of the brood chamber there is a pretty good chance she will move up into the honey super and start laying. I think I would have added the super to the top of the existing full super
     

  3. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

    Messages:
    8,996
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ""but would be she was not in the top box.""

    What does that mean?

    If she is in the bottom box, all is well. I think your idea will work. If she is in the super, she will likely stay there and if she fills it up, may swarm before moving down. You need to find her and place her in the bottom box.
     
  4. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

    Messages:
    6,487
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Sounds like a fairly classical case of the queen brooding up thru the center of the hive??? If yes????? then here I simply reorganize the frames of brood downward. if there are enough frames of brood at the top of the stack I usually simply reverse <if the other frames in this box are capped honey I normally scratch the capping slightly on each side of the brood frames... this get these frame opened up fairly fast for additional brood rearing and the honey moved back to the top of the stack.
     
  5. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

    Messages:
    3,708
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    One of the unfortunate correlations of bees is that the best honey producers are often the most aggressive. Maybe you could put the queen excluder below the two supers for a few days and see if any eggs appear in the frames above it. If none appear up above, you can remove it and most likely things will be okay (but no guarantees--bees like to surprise us). :roll:
     
  6. Michbeeman63

    Michbeeman63 New Member

    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    sorry for my typos. I meant I didn't think the queen would be in the upper honey super.
     
  7. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

    Messages:
    3,048
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    riverrat said:
    "if there is not a honey band across the top of the brood chamber there is a pretty good chance she will move up into the honey super and start laying. I think I would have added the super to the top of the existing full super"

    this is what i would have done as well, and as iddee said, you need to find her and corral her back down.

    ef said:
    " Maybe you could put the queen excluder below the two supers for a few days and see if any eggs appear in the frames above it."

    what you might do when you figure out where she is, place the q/e under the supers and leave it there until the brood has hatched out and the bees have filled it with nectar, then remove the q/e. put the super with the brood on first, then the empty one on top, as rat suggested.
     
  8. Barbarian

    Barbarian New Member

    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If you separate two areas of brood with a new super, under some conditions the queenless area will start emergency queen cells. Not likely to happen with a strong hive.

    I might have smoked the super with brood --- to drive the queen down, then shook the bees off the super into the bottom box and finally added an excluder.

    This is all very well in front of the lap-top but not as easy with a strong aggressive hive. .:grin:
     
  9. Zookeep

    Zookeep Active Member

    Messages:
    1,252
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Im betting in a few days with the brood split with a empty box you will have queen cells in the box that does not have the old queen in it, my very strong hives have made me cells everytime I put a frame of young brood up top, I have made a few nice nucs doing just that.