Is this Normal?

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by HisPalette, Apr 19, 2012.

  1. HisPalette

    HisPalette New Member

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    Is this a "drone frame" they pulled? Is this normal?

    This is from the hive we saw the young queen on 4/2, checked today for signs of laying...really don't think I am seeing any sign yet. Did not get a visual on her, but they are clustered and protective...This is the hive that had been broodless for about 2 weeks. We added a frame of brood from the other hive last week to buy the young queen time, to prevent a laying worker and give them the opportunity to raise another queen in the event she fails....(We added the youngest frame we had of brood. It appeared to have some eggs last week that they could have made into an emergency queen if they wanted to).
    P4190010.jpg
     
  2. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    this looks like a drone laying queen, or a laying worker, how many eggs can you see in a cell?
     

  3. HisPalette

    HisPalette New Member

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    I looked as hard as I could and I do not see any eggs at all...This colony is making some major honey, and I know either way I need to requeen because they are hostile..I had in the back of my mind that this might be a sort of preparation for a laying worker? but hard as I look I only see pollen and bee bread...other than the rack of brood I put in last week which is still capped and has some larva (I believe form the original hive's queen) If I requeen and the young queen is still in there will they "work it out"?
     
  4. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    I am pretty sure that that comb is not something that has been "pulled" recently. It is pretty old drone comb and I doubt it was drawn because of laying workers or a drone laying queen you may or may not have. I would check the frame you added and see if there is any sign of them trying to make a queen. If you can spare another frame with eggs do so. If not you can try to requeen.
     
  5. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    hispallette,
    perry is right about the age of the comb, but a alot of drone comb. i tried to blow this up abit, but can't really tell, it looks like you have eggs and larvae, and some cells may have multiple eggs in them? also, there are two bees on this frame, if the frame has eggs and larvae in varying stages one would normally see many bees feeding and packing pollen and nectar. if your hive is aggressive, you have a problem, and most likely a queen problem.

    ok, i just looked at this photo again, someone else take a look at this, the honeybee at the very bottom of the frame......is she dumping her butt into the cell?
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2012
  6. HisPalette

    HisPalette New Member

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    I see what you mean, but it is only the reflection of the foundation below. the cells were totally empty on this frame...I am posting a photo of another frame in this hive and they are either like this or totally empty. I cannot spare another frame of brood from the other yet. These bees covered my hands and hive tool today. On a simple inspection, crazy honey bees! Yes, need a better queen here I agree.
     

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  7. HisPalette

    HisPalette New Member

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    closer look
     

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  8. HisPalette

    HisPalette New Member

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    Yes she is, saw that, too.... but I could not see anything in the cells... I had a queen on 4/2, I photographed her, but she looked very tiny.
     
  9. rast

    rast New Member

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    Looks like laying workers to me.
     
  10. HisPalette

    HisPalette New Member

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    Will I have a problem requeening, in that case?
     
  11. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    hispalette,
    my mistake, you are right, so at your first post, and a first look at it, i thought that some cells had eggs or larvae, it appears to be the back of the foundation?
    i sometimes have to get the sun to my back and hold the frame to see the eggs., let alone look at photograph. i would requeen it as well.
     
  12. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    no, you shouldn't, but i would do a slower release in this hive if you said they are somewhat aggressive.
    the other concern i would have, is alot of drone cells on that one frame, excessive, i think i would be tempted to scrape those cells off and 'tell the bees to try it again'.
     
  13. Omie

    Omie New Member

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    photo looks like old plastic foundation that lost its wax coating long ago, so the bees later on just used it to build them some drone comb randomly on. The plastic looks bare. As others noted, that drone comb is old already, not recently made. It's just an unused stripped plastic frame from a while back, obviously not well liked by the bees.

    I'm not really sure why folks think this hive has a laying worker...there's a young queen present, right?, ...and no capped drone brood at all, and no multiple eggs in cells. They didn't attempt to make a replacement queen when you gave them a frame with eggs last week either. IMHO, sounds to me more like the new queen just needs another week to get started. How long ago was the young queen born?- 2 1/2 weeks or so?
     
  14. HisPalette

    HisPalette New Member

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    We got first sight of her on 4/2... I feel like she is in there, just couldn't find her... How long do I wait for brood based on the 4/2 date? This is the link for all the new inspection photos we took this afternoon... This is as nerve wracking as awaiting the birth of a baby! Made the split on 3/20 from this hive... something went whack... Probably carried over the old queen...as careful as I was...

    http://hispalette.blogspot.com/2012/04/hive-inspections-april-19-2012.html
     
  15. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    hi hispalette,
    if you did the split on march 20th, and it is now April 19th, and gave it a queen, i would say the queen went whack:lol: or as you say managed to get the old queen in there. i will take a peek at your photos, i love pix! thanks for sharing your adventure!
     
  16. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    Hi again hispalette,
    Had a chance to take a look at your pictures, thank you for sharing the link. It would appear to me you have a queenless hive. The queen that you photographed on march 20th in this hive appears to be a very healthy queen.

    In a queenless hive, all remaining brood will hatch out, (from your photos) there will be no eggs or larvae, and all foraging activity will cease, the bees get restless. have you seen any other types of queen cells present, or bees constructing emergency cells?

    Just some comments to consider, from the video, these bees did not seem aggressive to me, but I keep russians, aggressiveness can be the result of loss of the queen. if you feel they are aggressive, just use a little smoke when you inspect your hive. Just a few puffs to move them.

    What types of foundation do you have in your hives? It appears you have a mix of 3 types, besides the regular, foundation-less and also what appears to be foundation some would use for comb honey? A mix of these will cause problems in construction of comb building, and if your frames are not pushed together, you will also get some awry comb building. I might suggest you use 9 frames in your deep vs. 10 frames, it will aid in removal of your frames, and also inadvertent rolling or killing of the queen with the types of foundation and comb building you have going on. Although having 10 vs 9 frames is a personal preference, after the bees have drawn comb on foundation, i do use 9, but i use pierco wax coated foundation.

    Something has happened to your queen, and I would requeen this hive.
     
  17. HisPalette

    HisPalette New Member

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    Unfortunately, even when I put in a fresh frame of brood last week, they did not make an emergency queen. I saw a few attempts on frames with no brood. I do have a mix of frames and the foundation-less I have had good luck with this spring, If i introduce one at a time between the duragilt. I have 5 old frames I am planning to rotate out when the foundation less are pulled. we don't mind the natural festoon shapes in the brood chamber, but not those drone cells. And we definitely, we need a good queen! Bummer on the old queen! we will get on that... Last year everything went so smoothly...ugh!
     
  18. HisPalette

    HisPalette New Member

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    After a long and sleepless night, I called in a very experienced local beekeeper. Long story shorter...
    1. There is totally a new queen in Old Faithful!! (and she is so dark! beautiful!) It is assumed she was reared after 4/2..We think the light colored queen we had on 4/2, swarmed..hence the drop in numbers?
    2. She has laid in the last day some somewhat random, brand new eggs :thumbsup:
    They are barely a speck the size of a grain of sand, but we saw them...positioned right and in the bottom center on end...
    3. We got rid of all the nasty drone comb frames as River bee suggested too (thank you!).
    4. We rearranged everyone for the better...Combined most of the workers from both colonies (with the newspaper barrier) and made a really strong colony in Flower Power since she is laying a great brood pattern and put almost all the honey in with her.
    5. We gave the new queen a nice nuc sized quarters to raise new brood. This is now the "new split", they are primed now to pull good worker comb, raise babies, during this nectar flow.
    Here she is! of queen.jpg She is gorgeous!

    These are some queen making bees to keep up with my guffaws!
    Now I feel the best I have in weeks! Back to our March goal of one strong colony and a laying split. Thank you , thank you everyone. I cannot tell you how much all the advice has helped us to keep digging to get a resolution. I was so afraid I was going to loose both colonies!
     
  19. HisPalette

    HisPalette New Member

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  20. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    great photos hispalette,
    thanks for sharing those and thanks for the update, i was curious about your queen, definitely not the queen you started out with, but she's a beauty!