Isn't comb just comb?

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by kemptville, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. kemptville

    kemptville New Member

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    Aren't there only two cell sizes in a hive?

    I'm a little confused - this past weekend I was speaking with a beekeeper who told me he had deep frames which have be drawn and were used in his deep honey supers last year. Because of the weight of full deep honey frames he's decided to go with mediums and now has these deep drawn empty frames stored in his honey house. He told me I wouldn't be able to use them in my deep brood nest because the cells from a brood nest aren't the same as cells built for honey. Is this correct? I was hoping to take these off his hands to use in my brood chambers next spring but he said it wouldn't work.
     
  2. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Do children have to have twin beds, or can they sleep just fine in a full size?

    Get the frames of comb and use them. The bees will make the adjustments.
     

  3. ApisBees

    ApisBees Active Member

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    Bees build different sizes of cells One for brood and the other for drone. When the queen slides her abdomen down in the cell to lay an egg it it the tightness of the cell on her abdomen that lets her know which type of cell she is in and whether to lay a fertilized egg or not. If the are the larger drone size they will work for mite control but not for worker brood. the reason some like to use the larder for honey is it takes less wax to draw the frames out.
     
  4. kemptville

    kemptville New Member

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    Great analogy Iddee! :)

    I know they build one size for brood and the other size for drone but the question was can previously drawn cells used to store honey be used to raise brood in? Nice to see another Canadian on the forums btw :)
     
  5. Bsweet

    Bsweet Member

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    Queens don't seem to have a problem with laying eggs in a honey super. Jim
     
  6. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    Brood comb and "Honey" comb are one and the same. The only different size comb is as mentioned, Drone comb.
    Brood comb of course becomes darker and over a long period of time ever so slightly smaller (due to cocoons), but the bees really don't care one way or the other and will use either for either! :shock: :lol:
    Like Bsweet said = :lol:
     
  7. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    and now you see why we like to keep Iddee around... eh?
     
  8. kemptville

    kemptville New Member

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    Well that's awesome then :) I guess I'll make the beekeeper an offer and take his frames from him :) Thanks for the clarification!
     
  9. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    If it is comb drawn on regular (worker) size imprinted foundation it will almost certainly be worker brood sized cells despite having been drawn in supers and not laid in. If it were foundationless comb drawn out in honey supers then it would be larger sized cells. I dont know if a queen will lay fertilized eggs or not in drone or larger, sized cells. Kind of a trick question if the foundation type is not considered.
     
  10. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Start a package on foundationless. The first 3 X 3 in. comb will contain eggs. As it gets larger, the eggs will be placed lower and the upper cells will be filled with honey. Therefore, honeycomb in natural comb is brood size.
     
  11. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    in my experienced kemptville the only way to get odd sized cells is to buy 'thin surplus honey foundation' from Kelleys which produces a very odd sized cell. there is some small difference in 'natural' comb and comb derived from foundation... the bees seem not to find this difference to much of a problem.
     
  12. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    I put one foundationless frame into a hive with otherwise wax foundation and they drew it out and laid almost 100% drone. It was placed on the edge of the brood frames, not in the middle. I frozed it, uncapped and flushed out and placed it in 2 or 9 position and they filled it with honey. Certainly not natural conditions. Question is, had I placed it back in the centre of the brood area would it have been laid up drone again or could the queen lay viable worker eggs in it to be raised. Would the workers chew back and redraw it to worker sized cells. I should throw a foundationless frame in my honey supers and see whether they would draw it out worker sized or the much larger cells like I see in some of the rogue constructions they make.
     
  13. Barbarian

    Barbarian New Member

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    Pass on this deal.

    I would pass on this deal.

    I suspect that the frames offered have drone comb, probably produced by using drone-base foundation in the frames.

    Placing one of these frames in a brood nest will produce a frame of drone larvae. The varroa will love such a frame. Even if the bees tear down some of the comb to make worker cells you will end up with a frame of mixed drone and worker cells.

    The only advantage is the frames. If you are prepared to remove the comb and (drone) foundation and replace with worker foundation, then you might save on the cost of buying and assembling new frames. Depends on the deal.
     
  14. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    I would not turn down these frames. There is nothing to indicate they are anything but regular cell size foundation which gets drawn out as such, barring the odd bit of drone cell creation you can expect anyway. The cells may be drawn out a bit deeper depending on frame spacing used and decapping method, but the workers will adjust that when cleaning the cells before laying. That would be minor compared to converting a whole frame of drone cells to worker size.
     
  15. barry42001

    barry42001 New Member

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    while general it is true worker foundation will generate worker cells, but at the end of the day bees will not hesitate to rework foundation to manufacture what they want if you put in 10 frames of worker for foundation you can expect close to 90 percent worker cells. the rest will be whatever the bees want them to be. at the end of the day use the frames.
    Barry