Learned a neat trick trick today.

Discussion in 'Beekeeping 101' started by Yankee11, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. Yankee11

    Yankee11 New Member

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    I know this is probably a known trick to experienced beeks.

    I have hundreds of frames put together that I need to get foundation in. Ben watching videos on wiring frames and was dreading it. Been using those little split pins and they are expensive.

    Sold some equipment to a beekeeper today and we were talking bees in the driveway. We were discussing frames and I asked him if he used wire, or those expensive little split pins you insert in the sides. He said neither. He uses those metal hair pins that women use on rollers. They are cheap a Walmart and work great. I was able to put 3 deeps together in no time tonight. 90 pins for 1.94.

    That just made my day.

    Hopefully I have added some value to the forum tonight.
     
  2. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    As long as the weather is cool enough for the foundation to stay straight, they should work fine. When it gets hot, the was will buckle if not wired. Fatbeeman uses fishing line rather than wire. Much cheaper and much faster and easier.
     

  3. Yankee11

    Yankee11 New Member

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    Thanks Iddee. Hopefully these will get drawn before it gets to hot. Maybe I switch to fishing line later in summer.

    Do you do fishing line the same way. Cross it and use nails at the ends? Probably don't need the eyelets either, or would you?
     
  4. Omie

    Omie Active Member

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    If the wooden side pieces of the frames have holes in them, you just take a long piece of fishing line and thread it through one hole, cross the frame diagonally, out through a hole in the other side, back in by another hole to complete the X across to the first side, then pull it a bit snug and tie the ends. No need for nails or pins. The bees build right around the lines, and it keeps the comb in place in hot weather.
    You can do this with wax foundation, just make sure each half of the X goes on a different side of the foundation. OR, I just use the line in an X with an empty frame and let them build ALL the comb themselves, no foundation at all.
     
  5. bamabww

    bamabww Active Member

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  6. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    I would suggest that you do not do up too many till you see how they work. I used some and the bees chewed around them and the foundation went wavy. They also tend not to use some cells directly over the pins. Local conditions, timing, the bees immediate need for comb etc., may cause a different outcome for you.
     
  7. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    I bought some bobby pins at Dollar General, and when i compared the price to the split pins,there wasn't much differents. The split pins work better for me, but i only use them in comb honey supers. Jack
     
  8. Pilotbeekeeper

    Pilotbeekeeper New Member

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    Omie -- I wanted to try this idea this season.....do you put melted beeswax in the grove of the top bar to give the bees a starting point, or is this not necessary? PBK
     
  9. Yankee11

    Yankee11 New Member

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    I bought some bees wax foundation without any wires. I'm going to cut 2 or 3 inch strips and attach the strips to the top bar to give them something to start on. Then i'm going to insert these foundation frames in between 2 drawn comb frames.

    I didn't think about the fishing line being ran across the open space though of the comb though.
     
  10. Omie

    Omie Active Member

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    Pilot, everyone has their own methods and preferences, but...
    No, you don't need to paint any wax on anything. All the bees need is an edge or an angled ridge hanging down to build off of. If you use wedge top frames, just nail in the wedge flipped the wrong way, so that it hangs down a little like a ridge under the top bar. The bees really don't need our crappy man-made wax foundation to start from- they know perfectly well how to build comb off of an edge of something. I've also used popsicle sticks glued into the groove along the top- works great, no need to paint wax or create strips of foundation for them.
    One thing that definitely DOES encourage them to build nice straight comb is like Yankkee said already- place these foundationless frames (with an X of fishing line for new comb stability) in between fully drawn frames of comb. I feed in foundationless frames like this periodically just for the heck of it during a good Spring flow, to raise my number of drawn frames inventory.
     
  11. pistolpete

    pistolpete New Member

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    I want to give that a try Omnie. Do you do just one big X with the fishing line or a couple of oblong ones. I'm interested in doing this for cut comb. Is it possible to pull the line out in order to cut the comb into chunks?
     
  12. Omie

    Omie Active Member

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    I'd think you'd make a big mess doing that for cut comb. If you are using shallows for cut comb (as most folks do), they don't need any additional support in the form of fishing line at all. I use the fishing line only for full deep sized brood frames. They are the most likely to fall out when it's really hot out.
     
  13. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    well I myself do use support pins for shallow frames when I am trying to make a bit of cut comb honey. I would think (via a bit of experience) that if you handle each box with kid gloves and NEVER transport it farther than your own back yard then shallow frames made up without pins would work just fine. If you have out yards like myself and MUST transport such stuff even a short distance in the back of a pick up truck then you are better advised to invest in some kind of support pins.
     
  14. Omie

    Omie Active Member

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    Yes i can see your point Tec. What I'm thinking about is foundationless shallow frames for comb honey, obviously then support pins are not needed with no foundation, it doesn't need fishing line either. I've been using foundationless medium frames without any supports, and that works fione- but like you say, I'm at home, no rough truck rides, and it rarely gets over 95F here. :)
     
  15. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    pete -
    "I want to give that a try Omnie. Do you do just one big X with the fishing line or a couple of oblong ones. I'm interested in doing this for cut comb. Is it possible to pull the line out in order to cut the comb into chunks?

    omie-
    "I'd think you'd make a big mess doing that for cut comb. If you are using shallows for cut comb (as most folks do), they don't need any additional support in the form of fishing line at all."

    pete, what omie said. i do foundation-less comb honey, and have for many years using medium supers with 'blank' frames in them, with no support whatsoever. the trick is to place these 'empty' or blank frames in between drawn comb as yankee11 pointed out, and as omie said, they do build nice straight comb with this method. i don't use any starter strips, some do, i just simply place a bead of bees wax in the top and bottom grooves, to give the girls a jump start. i have a slide show/video on this here:

    comb honey post # 17
     
  16. Yankee11

    Yankee11 New Member

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    One thing I saw on Fat Bee Man video talking about foundationless. If you have foundation the queen will start laying quicker. She
    can start laying on the foundation as the cells are being drawn. She cant do that on foundationless.

    So for my second deeps right now I am going to use foundation so she can get to laying sooner.

    Then I will start inserting blnaks like Omie to build up my foundationless drawn frames. Maybe if I do some splits I will replace frames with blanks.
     
  17. Omie

    Omie Active Member

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    It's amazing how fast thousands of worker bees will build comb out of nothing in the Spring with a flow on.
     
  18. Marbees

    Marbees Member

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    In my experience it is foundationless frames that are built fastest. It takes just a little bit more for plastic frames, and double time for frames with wax foundation!
    Tested on two different locations, different bees, three years in a row, always the same results.
     
  19. Yankee11

    Yankee11 New Member

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    Wow, your kidding.

    So when I add these 2nd deeps, do you think I should do a checker board. Open frame, wax foundation, open frame, wf. etc.
     
  20. Marbees

    Marbees Member

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    That would be a good way to see how it works in your area, you can compare frames from the same hive.:thumbsup: