Make sense?

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by PerryBee, Aug 30, 2012.

  1. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    Right now my set-up (honey house minus the house part :roll:) consists of:

    20 frame radial extractor
    20 frame uncapping tray
    25 gallon (300 lb.) bottling tank

    What I am missing is some system for catching the honey coming out of the larger extractor. Buckets won't work anymore when this gets set up.
    I have a line on a water jacketed sump/clarifier and a pump. The sump is a big one (holds 500 lbs.), probably much bigger than what I need, and the pump is a 3/4 inch. (not sure if the pump is the right size or not).
    I got to thinking that if the deal on the sump is good, I could use it as a sump and a holding tank. Let the tank fill up and let the wax rise to the surface, let it sit for a few days and then pump out the honey into the bottling tank (or buckets) as clear honey for storage. I may also need to install a filter at some point, don't know if my double strainer will handle the flow coming out of the extractor in such volume.

    Any thoughts or suggestions as to this possible set-up or other ideas or improvements?

    Thanks
     
  2. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

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    Pictures----pictures-----:???:
     

  3. LongWoods

    LongWoods New Member

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    Perry,

    *Your building a great system for a sideliner. A 42 gal sump is ideal, set the sump at a lower level than the outlet from your extractor. Route the output line from the extractor and one from your uncapping tray to a coarse sieve at the sump to strain out the big chunks (makes the sump more efficient). Then pump the honey from the sump up to your bottling tank that I would suggest be chest high (seated). You might like using a filter bag at the top of the bottling tank for the finished product. The 3/4 pump is fine, but you might prefer a 1 inch to keep up with the system.

    Personally, I prefer running honey through the entire system and filling 5 gallon containers with the excess (more than the bottler holds) rather than leaving it in the sump. When you need more just dump a few 5 gallon jugs into the sump and warm them up.

    As you grow you can run a parallel system that is identical and handle many hundred hives with just 2 people processing. The advantage of twin lines is when you have a failure you can still limp along on one during repairs.

    Good luck
     
  4. BoilerJim

    BoilerJim New Member

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    WOW: :shock:

    20 frame radial extractor
    20 frame uncapping tray
    25 gallon (300 lb.) bottling tank
    I am envious.
     
  5. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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  6. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    sounds like longwoods knows the routine.

    course material should be sieved out ahead of the sump pump and most sump/pump I have seen run in conjunction with a float switches. honey should be pumped while still warm.... which is to suggest that cold thick honey doesn't pump so well.
     
  7. gunsmith

    gunsmith New Member

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    In other words, Perry-dump the snow out of the uncapping tank before you use it. :rolling:
     
  8. Zookeep

    Zookeep Active Member

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    how many hives do you have Perry? and how many hives will the system your building handle?
     
  9. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

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    1. Make a quick review of the relevent sections of in ABC to XYZ of Beekeeping (Root) and in The Hive and the Honey Bee (ed Grout) before you set up the equipment in permanent positions. It looks like you're going into real big time so consider present needs and possible expansion to make the most efficient layout.
    2. Thanks for the pictures. I could almost smell the newness in the air.
    3. Your snapshot in the snow was just what I needed to cool me off (at least mentally) at the start of another hot day. :thumbsup:
     
  10. Marbees

    Marbees Member

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    Nice equipment Perry:thumbsup: What LongWoods said, and get 1" pump from the beginning, anything smaller is PITA.
    You may consider building dollies on HD locking casters for your equioment, something I will do, so after the extraction is over, just push all the equipment to one end of the building, and use the building for other purposes.
     
  11. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    this year I have found those small furniture moving dollies they sell at harbor freight to be excellent devices for rolling around stacks of supers. next years improvement will definitely be a 'super elevator' for adjusting the height of the supers stack at the end of my uncapping tray.
     
  12. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    Right now I have 29, Zookeep, with a cut-out on the near horizon as well. I have split hard this year to make up my winter losses so honey production is not going to be great, but I remember extracting 30 mediums with my Maxant 2 frame hand crank all too well. 300 frames, 2 at a time, flipping each one half way through. :shock:
    While I still may use the 2 frame this year (depending on production), I want to be set up so that this part of things isn't the chore that it can become as I expand.
    The idea of spending and then ending up with something that bottlenecks or doesn't flow smoothly is probably tricky.
    I am not sure what the capacity of the system might be but I am hopeful that if I expand it will deal with it. (50 to 100 maybe?)
    Longwoods indeed seems to be knowledgeable so he might be a good resource.
     
  13. LongWoods

    LongWoods New Member

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    Perry,

    I apologize for not answering, I have been in a crazy work cycle. Considering where you live (minimal hive beetles) the system should easily handle 200 hives (approx 100 lbs per hive) with a 1 man operation. The suggestions of using dollies is right on, make a metal tray for each dolly to catch the drippings and stack your supers high. When you build your honey house, have a separate room for the stacks (warming room) with a sealed doorway leading to the processing room to keep out flying intruders. You may want to build a little manual deboxer (wood, small table type) to help speed up your operation a bit, once you get going. Also think about a larger wax melter system (solar if you like) as you will have a large supply of cappings to deal with.

    Good luck.
     
  14. LongWoods

    LongWoods New Member

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    Perry,

    After rereading my post I thought it best to clarify the statement "easily 200 hives". This system will handle that amount which will be a full week (7 days, 10 hr days) in the honey house. Which only includes deboxing, decapping, extracting, storing honey in containers (5 gal), box cleanup and reboxing. It does not include pulling supers, bottling and labeling or setting the wet supers back out for cleanup.

    If you were in hive beetle country the entire process has to be reduced to a 3 day cycle which adds a couple days to the cycle since you must pull less supers at once, allowing them to be replaced on hives within the 3 days.

    Tec mentioned a float switch for the pump to move honey from the sump to the bottler. I absolutely agree, that is a must.

    Keep an eye on your bottler, as you get into a rhythm you will quickly fill 25 gals and will need to off load it into storage jugs or barrels.

    Good luck
     
  15. ronsin

    ronsin Member

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    filter

    sure them whiskers of yours would make a great filter perry
     
  16. Marbees

    Marbees Member

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    LongWoods, do you have a picture or drawing of manual deboxer that you could post?
    Thanks.
     
  17. ApisBees

    ApisBees Active Member

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    Generally your per day honey extraction is tied to your storage / bottling tank. After pumping the honey you will need to let it settle so the air floats to the surface. You can then skim the foam off the surface before bottling. A 3/4" pump will move honey faster than it will flow out of 20 deep frames. Your Uncle Leo only used a 3/4" pump and he had a 60 frame. The bigger the pump the larger the spill. You will want to have the honey sit in the sump to warm so the honey will filter easier and quicker. The temp that the sump is set to in order to warm the honey for straining is to warm it leave the honey in for any length of time, and once you would pump it to the bottling tank you will need to let it sit so the air will rise. Strainers can quickly clog up and over flow with large volumes of honey from the extractor or pump.
    Once you get to full production on your hives you most likly wont be packaging all your honey when you extract it but bulk storing some to re-liquify at a later date to refill costumers containers and to have liquid honey with out crystallization for customers and stores. Honey is extracted quicker and more honey leaves the frames if the suppers and the honey in them is warmed. On a large scale a hot room is used, for smaller operations a warming cabinet large enough to hold enough supers for a days worth or extracting. The cabinet can also be used to put the barrels of honey in for reliquifying.
    I will try to attach a picture of pictures we have of extracting honey at Leo's honey house. that we have displayed at the IPE
    IMG101.jpg
     
  18. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    Boy, I'm glad you found this forum ApisBees, I get valuable beekeeping information and a bit of family history as well. :wink: :thumbsup:
     
  19. jim314

    jim314 New Member

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    This is going to seem sophomoric to most of you, but how do you skim the foam? I seem to push it around in a five gallon pail more than get it out?
     
  20. ApisBees

    ApisBees Active Member

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    Use a big spoon restaurant serving 5 " long 3" wide Pull the foam across the pail to one side. let the foam stack up then slide the spoon under the foam thru the honey allowing a little honey and the foam to slid down onto the spoon.
    If you put it in a tall skinny glass jar and set it in a south facing window the foam will dissipate as the air bubbles thin and pop.