Makes sense

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Iddee, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    This was in the Waco Tribune Herald,
    >> Waco , TX Nov 18, 2010
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Put me in charge . . .
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get
    >> rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for Ding
    >> Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for
    >> 50-pound bags of rice and beans, blocks
    >> of cheese and all the powdered milk you
    >> can haul away. If you want steak and
    >> frozen pizza, then get a job.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first
    >> thing I'd do is to get women Norplant
    >> birth control implants or tubal
    >> ligations. Then, we'll test recipients
    >> for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine and
    >> document all tattoos and piercings. If
    >> you want to reproduce or use drugs,
    >> alcohol, smoke or get tats and
    >> piercings, then get a job.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Put me in charge of government housing.
    >> Ever live in a military barracks? You
    >> will maintain our property in a clean
    >> and good state of repair. Your "home"
    >> will be subject to inspections anytime
    >> and possessions will be inventoried. If
    >> you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then
    >> get a job and your own place.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> In addition, you will either present a
    >> check stub from a job each week or you
    >> will report to a "government" job. It
    >> may be cleaning the roadways of trash,
    >> painting and repairing public housing,
    >> whatever we find for you. We will sell
    >> your 22 inch rims and low profile tires
    >> and your blasting stereo and speakers
    >> and put that money toward the “common
    >> good.â€
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Before you write that I've violated
    >> someone's rights, realize that all of
    >> the above is voluntary. If you want our
    >> money, accept our rules. Before you say
    >> that this would be "demeaning" and ruin
    >> their "self esteem," consider that it
    >> wasn't that long ago that taking someone
    >> else's money for doing absolutely
    >> nothing was demeaning and lowered self
    >> esteem.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> If we are expected to pay for other
    >> people's mistakes we should at least
    >> attempt to make them learn from their
    >> bad choices. The current system rewards
    >> them for continuing to make bad choices.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> AND While you are on Gov’t
    >> subsistence, you no longer can VOTE!
    >> Yes that is correct. For you to vote
    >> would be a conflict of interest. You
    >> will voluntarily remove yourself from
    >> voting while you are receiving a Gov’t
    >> welfare check. If you want to vote,
    >> then get a job.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Makes sense to me, how about you?
     
  2. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    I like it, sooo who was this person running for office :lol:
     

  3. bamabww

    bamabww New Member

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    Sounds good to me.
     
  4. Charles

    Charles New Member

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    I'd vote for that guy ;-)
     
  5. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    We are probably not all that far from a dawning that similar conditions are about to be a necessity anyway. It would just be so much smoother if those most affected would buy into it willingly like what happens when war time austerity is adopted for the common good. It is amazing how a great lowering of consumption can be embraced if the mindset is right. Forcing the issue is certainly appealing but could be messy and nasty. Just saying, but look what is going on today in Greece: not too hard to envision it coming to a local theater!
     
  6. sqkcrk

    sqkcrk New Member

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    iddee
     
  7. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    sounds pretty clueless to me but then again the address say Waco Texas so I guess it would make some sense to some folks. sadly I would guess the general audience doesn't recognize that about 70% of the folks that would be homeless and hungry under such a plan are minors.

    you are not even one small step away from national socialism when someone decides some other 'groups' rights need to be removed. I guess with such thinking folks who get social security checks or vet benefits (check or no) should also have their voting rights removed. add of course all retired government employees drawing a retirement check... oh my the list could just go on and on.
     
  8. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Tec, when my parents were disabled with 6 kids, the only way they could get gov. assistance was to give up their home ownership. No home owner could receive assistance. My parents told them to shove it. We all lived.

    All the ones you mentioned did something to earn it. We are talking only of those who have done nothing to earn it. big difference!
     
  9. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    you can argue and rationalize all day long for throwing old folks and young folks and folks without means under the bus but do not think this will get you any high marks at the pearly gates or some stellar grade in an ethic class. I can almost see Jesus pulling this little note out and shaking it in your nose and asking you bluntly... 'you thought this sounded good'? I think it was he that said.. 'what did you do for the least of these'. I don't think he would find much comfort in the idea of tossing women and children or 'the poor' out into the street.

    from there things like 'take this groups voting privileges away' or 'deciding that group needs to be sterilized' only gets you points around nazi, neo nazi and racist hate groups. if you feel comfortable with those kind of folks then I really believe there will be no salvation for you when the time comes.

    and no there are a lot of folks that are drawing social security checks and vet benefits without doing a single solitary thing to earn those benefits. so according to your narrow point of view any stay at home mom that is now drawing social security benefits via a dead husbands death benefits would be subject to your same rules. any veterans wife with three kids at home and a dead dad would also qualify.

    at the end of the day such rhetoric is almost always about blaming someone else for a circumstance that 'the author' helped create. it's a blame game pure and simple and it is not even a very elaborate blame game.

    quite obvious to me (has been for some time) someone little program is not working out like it was sold to the public so now is the time to blame ANYONE else for the failure. in such a world it is always wise to choose the most powerless folks first... you can work your way up the ladder later.

    ps... according to the newspaper (Houston Post) the Lone Star cards program has limited a great deal of misuse of these funds in eliminating the purchase of cigarettes and alcohol for money that is suppose to purchase food and it also almost impossible to sell or trade these benefits in this form. the fact that the author is unaware of this and decides 'they' are large enough to decide what folks do and do not eat should tell all you need to know.
     
  10. sqkcrk

    sqkcrk New Member

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    This discussion comes up every now and then. The questions being, "Is what we do for the poor helping them become less dependant? Or is it helping them stay dependant?" I don't know the answers. I imagine, in some cases, the answer is yes. But, what does one do in the mean time? Right now. When the need is immediate.

    My Church allows Campus Kitchens to set up and feed those who wish to partake, a free or low cost meal, prepared from leftovers from the local University Kitchens. I imagine that most people don't put any money in the can. I know people who eat a meal there every now and then who could put something in the can, but don't.

    We also go to the Methodist Church for a Free Will Dinner a cpl of times a year, to prepare and serve a meal. I see tyhe same people there.

    But, for some reason, fewer people/families are showing up to eat. I don't know if it is a transportation thing or maybe other churches are providing meals in these times when there appears to be so much need.

    Social service and socialm justice is a hard subject to come down correctly on. But, even tho I don't consider myself a Christian by any definition, "That which you did for the least of these, you did for me." is a pretty good way to live, in my opinion.

    When I was in Theatre School I remember a saying which goes something like, "Be sure to be nice and pleasant to others on your way up, because they will be there on the way down." Or something like that. Sorta like "Do unto others...".
     
  11. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    "I think it was he that said.. 'what did you do for the least of these'."

    I think my bible says the Lord helps he who helps himself.

    ""and no there are a lot of folks that are drawing social security checks and vet benefits without doing a single solitary thing to earn those benefits. so according to your narrow point of view any stay at home mom that is now drawing social security benefits via a dead husbands death benefits would be subject to your same rules. any veterans wife with three kids at home and a dead dad would also qualify.""

    Tell a couple of ladies who are raising a dead man's children that they are doing nothing to earn the benefits he paid for. You may find yourself hanging from the nearest oak.

    In case it's too small to read, it's a grocery receipt for Nothing but cold water lobster and porterhouse steaks, paid for with food stamps. TOTAL $141.78 I guess they wouldn't be considered alcohol or tobacco, but it is definitely abuse.

    Of course, we've been down this road before. You have always stated everyone in the world should be given the exact amount of everything, regardless of who produces and who doesn't, so I guess it isn't going to change now.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. sqkcrk

    sqkcrk New Member

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    If one qualifies for assistance, how can you gripe about how they spend what is given them? You do seem to know what it takes to qualifiy.

    It appears as tho you seem to believe that qualifying for assistance is something that many people strive for. I don't get that impression from those I see who need the assistance.

    Where did you get the receipt from? Is it possibly out of context? Yeah, it is too small to read. Can you enlarge it? And, while we are looking at an isolated example, what about all of the other hundreds of thousands or millions of other receipts that this is an exception too?

    Quite often people look at one example an extrapolate that out to being an indication of what is normal, as if evrybody receiving Food Stamps is buying Lobster and bottled water, or whatever. It just ain't so.

    It may occur more often than what you like to see. But it is only a snapshot, not a movie.

    Iddee, you have done alot w/ your life and are a generous person. You should be commended for your accomplishments, considering your origins, the little I heard you tell of your early life. Certainly that life helped make you the person you are today. But, would you really want all who were in similar situations to have to go thru what you did?
     
  13. sqkcrk

    sqkcrk New Member

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    This Forum seeks assistance from those who use it. How many am I subsidizing by my Donation? Everybody on this Forum owns a computer and has the time to spend here, so I imagine they are all well off enuf to donate even just $1.00 per month. But I bet they don't. Maybe we should consider them as leeches on the system?

    Just askin', not sayin'.
     
  14. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    mark writes:
    If one qualifies for assistance, how can you gripe about how they spend what is given them? You do seem to know what it takes to qualifiy.

    tecumseh:
    it is call greed and envy and from what little I know of christian dogma both are considered sins. a psychologist (no real expertise there but I do know the language) would call most of the folks response here projection... that is they are projecting their own feelings and world experience unto events that may or may not be totally random or related.

    I also believe that 'the good book' suggest that some effort beyond nicely phased words and high thinking are necessary for a practicing christian. some folks can take a helping hand and lift themselves up but sadly others have so few attributes and talents that any amount of assistance will get them no where. some families and society in general are at least partially to blame for much of these inadequacies.

    as Mark suggest to Iddee your 'evidence' really has limited to NO meaning. you have generalized from an individual to world size picture here and no I cannot read such small print so I cannot discern any detail about this receipt. could means something or could mean only that someone has an over active imagination??? it could even be a total fraud which wouldn't be such an 'out there' statement given some recent events. as I stated previously the Lone Star Card as a system was largely developed to limit this kind of abuse and that is why food stamps are now either gone or soon to be gone from Texas. there was a lot of abuse under that system simply because food stamps could be sold or traded. under the old system a lot of merchants (generally small grocery stores) were actively participating in this fraud.
     
  15. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    The old fable of 5 blind men feeling of an elephant.

    They feel different shapes, so will never agree on the shape of the creature.
     
  16. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    Matthew 25:40 I tell you the truth. When you did it to ONE of the least of these my brothers and sisters. YOU WERE DOING IT TO ME.

    Yes it's aggravating to give money to those who are living off the system, but it's not up to me to judge them. (someone higher up will do that) So if i have to feed, lets say 10 who are living off the system to feed one child that needs something to eat, (an innocent victem) then i'm alright with it. I'm just passing through here anyway. Jack
     
  17. sqkcrk

    sqkcrk New Member

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    Living off of the system. That's one way to look at it. How about living because of the system. W/out many of the social saftey nets, how many do you suppose would be in worse shape or dead? Should I be concerned?

    Sorry, had to go for a while to do some parental duties.

    Whether I should be concerned or not, I am. I am concerned that I/we am/are not doing enuf for those who can't do for themselves. I'm concerned about whether what I am doing is thr right thing. I am concerned that what I/we am/are doing is doing harm or good.

    What else are we to do? Turn our backs, turn a blind eye? Only offer aid to those who not only qualify but are willing and able to do something like what was described in the OP?

    There is no real cut and dry, black and white, answer to these questions. imo And over simplfication doesn't help.
     
  18. indypartridge

    indypartridge New Member

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    Two points:
    1) There are plenty of scripture references commanding care for widows and orphans, but when it comes to abled-bodied folks then I believe this scripture applies:
    This we commanded you, that if any would not work , neither should he eat. 2 Thess 3:10

    2) Scripture applies to Christians, not the U.S. government. Do we want the U.S. gov't implementing policy based on their interpretation of the Bible? No me.
     
  19. Bens-Bees

    Bens-Bees New Member

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    I was ok with it right down to the last one... but the non-voting one I'm not ok with. The problem with the system we have now is that too few people vote. The less voter participation there is, the more the government works for special interests. Voting is how civilians protect and care for the rights that military folks bought with their blood and sacrifices. It is already dismally sad how little civilians give a damn about the rights and freedoms bought for us by the sacrifices of so many and I certainly won't contribute to cutting down on voter participation in any way.

    PS - I do also think that there would be a painful readjustment period if the rest of that were implimented, and it wouldn't just be the jobless that would feel the pain. Many who would be turned down for assistance would turn to more nefarious ways to earn a living, and that may well include stealing from you in a more direct sense. Eventually we'd get to a point where most of those new criminals would be incarcerated, but incarcerated people are getting a free ride anyway, and that's a ride that costs taxpayers a lot more than the social safety nets do, and that ride's not a voluntary one.

    PPS - I would also have to expand the food selection just a bit... although I agree that they shouldn't be eating steak and lobster, the foods outlined also don't give enough nutrients, and we don't want to create a horde of malnourished people that are then too weak to get a job. Not sure exactly what I'd add to it though, would have to have a nutritionist look it over and see exactly what all's missing, my untrained brain only picks out the B vitamins off the top of my head; but I'm sure there's many more, iron might also be missing from that lineup.
     
  20. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    ""W/out many of the social saftey nets, how many do you suppose would be in worse shape or dead?""

    My guess would be about 10% of the number that would be better off through strong incentives and better parental teachings.

    Ben, how about a direct food allowance according the the family's members, culture, religion, location, ETC? I think that in itself would save billions of tax dollars.