Makes sense

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Iddee, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. sqkcrk

    sqkcrk New Member

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    The operative word being "able bodied". Who defines and determines ablebodiedness?
     
  2. sqkcrk

    sqkcrk New Member

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    Where would the better parental teachings come from.

    "culture, religion, location"? So, NC BBQ only, if they live in NC. If they like SC BBQ better, too bad?

    Would you like to see dietery controls like low sodium and low fat, considering the culture, religion and location which seems to have alot of obesety and heart ailments, such as SC and NC do?
     

  3. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    I think it would be up to the family, as long as they got basic, healthy food, not a lot of needless junk nor elitist delicacies that the normal person could not afford, and not something they could easily convert to cash, as is done now. I'm not for controlling people as much as controlling the money given by others for a particular purpose.
     
  4. Bens-Bees

    Bens-Bees New Member

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    Here's why it won't happen with regard to restricting food stamp purchases...

    Think about this for a moment, imagine you're a major honey producer who'se honey get's sold in every major supermarket... do you want food stamp users to be restricted from buying your honey? Keep in mind that government money spends the same as money paid from private funds to buy your honey.... the answer is of course not, right? That wouldn't be good for your bottom line.

    Do you think the cattleman's association, or lobersterman's association looks at the purchase of steak and lobster any differently? Now do you think politicians who have control over this issue are going to be willing to lose support from those various groups?

    This is why you shouldn't hold your breath waiting for the system to change.
     
  5. Bens-Bees

    Bens-Bees New Member

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    That brings up a whole 'nuther problem... different people have different dietary needs... a person with diabetes would quickly be hospitalized if eating the nearly pure-starch diet originally suggested... a person with a thyroid disorder or stomache condition might also have varying dietary needs... so now we're looking at having to have a dietician look at the individual allotments and make determinations about who get's what... now you've got the makings for a new corruptable system though, because just like pain institutes now, you'll end up with some good ones, and some corrupt ones, and the people looking to abuse the system will find the corrupt ones and go right back to abusing the system.
     
  6. sqkcrk

    sqkcrk New Member

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    Do you actually see alot of that going on? Or any of that? Do you think Food Stamp recipients should be required to eat a more healthy diet than those who can afford to buy all of their own food?

    What do you have against "elitist delicacies"? Certainly, they must be more nutritious than Micky D's Burgers, don't ya think?
     
  7. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    I don't care what anybody eats when they are buying it. I do have something against somebody eating better food than I can when I'm buying theirs.
     
  8. Bens-Bees

    Bens-Bees New Member

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    I think a lot of people have that sentiment, myself included. I just don't think there's much hope for actually achieving such a system.
     
  9. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    let me see here...

    someone who is not even hungry (I am profiling a bit I know) is envious of someone else eating 'better' than themselves?

    someone who rides around in a nice new car is envious because someone has shiny rims?

    sorry I don't get that.
     
  10. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Tec, it's not what they have. It's how they got it.
     
  11. Omie

    Omie Active Member

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    I work at my town's silent food pantry several times a month. I also plant extra vegetables and salad greens in my home garden and I harvest, wash, bag, and bring it myself to the food pantry every week.
    Lots of people come in to get food there. I can tell that just about all of them need help in one way or another. Nobody is 'faking' need there. these are people who are laid off or disabled, have children or are elderly, and have gone through their food stamps for the month already and are unable to pay all their bills these days. They do odd jobs and are looking for work, or are unable to work.
    Some of them choose healthy foods at the pantry, like my veggies and greens, oatmeal, whole grain bread. Others choose what I consider to be unhealthy items like fake fruit juice, sugary cereal, breaded chicken 'nuggets' instead of real chicken meat. Who am I to judge? As long as they have something to eat that is the most important thing. These are for the most part people in desperate situations. Next year it could be me and I wouldn't want someone telling me what food I can eat and which food I can't eat. Imagine having someone follow you in the supermarket and telling you what you can pick?
     
  12. sqkcrk

    sqkcrk New Member

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    Lots of places, if you qualify for Food Stamps you can't work to fill the unmet needs. What's a person to do? Lie? Cheat? Work under the table?
     
  13. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    I'm sure glad I don't live in NY. Here, I've seen the amount of food stamps people get. It is 3 or more times what my food bill is. I don't think they run out as much as they trade them for cash.

    Also, here you can work and still get food stamps. the amount of income will determine how much you get, but making a few bucks don't cut them off completely.

    And if someone wants to follow me into the grocery store and pick my groceries for me, then pay for them, I would welcome them with open arms.
     
  14. divkabee

    divkabee New Member

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    Silly me. And I thought this forum was all about beekeeping.
     
  15. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    General discussion is for anything other than beekeeping, as long as it stays friendly and clean, other than politics and religion. We don't think those two subjects can stay clean. People are just too passionate about them.
     
  16. Bens-Bees

    Bens-Bees New Member

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    Although extremely rare, it's the one or two cases like these that makes people's blood boil on this issue: http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/ ... 49884.html

    Now this is just me, but I don't think this guy should be getting food stamps. I can't go so far as to say that he should be in jail since he did check with officials and was open and honest with them... but surely we can all agree that a system that allows abuse like this is surely broken, even if it is one or two cases in a billion.
     
  17. sqkcrk

    sqkcrk New Member

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    First of all, I believe you can eat as well as you would like, and mostlikely do. So, maybe you see certain foods as extravegant and their purchase as wasteful?

    Secondly, you are putting the blame in the wrong place, aren't you? Do you really want controls in what Food Stamps are used for or on the programs which dole out the Food Stamps?

    Since the money you give the poor for Food Stamps is actually your Tax dollars, it's not like you are giving a child an allowance or a birthday gift of money w/ expectations attatched, is it?

    Part of the problem is the way Government Programs everywhere grow, they don't shrink. Just look at our Intelligence Community, CIA, NSA, Homeland Security. Ever heard of the Departrment of Redundancy Departrment?

    Once a Program is set up to address a certain need in society, that program will eventually grow a little at a time because people see that these people aught to be covered too. And then those people also. And so it grows. I don't know what the solution is, realistically.

    I believe that what happened before Social Service Programs were created was that we had a more agrarian society where family structure and communities were different, more Amish like, therefore everyone took care of each other and those on the fringes of society didn't live all that long when hard times befell them, or they moved somewhere else.

    So, maybe the problem is deeper and wider than a simple snapshot can illustrate. Times and cercumstances have changed from when our patriarch, iddee, was a boy, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth :), and we don't like it. We have it in our minds that times were better, more idealic. We forget that maybe it wasn't, not for as many anyway.
     
  18. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    Iddee writes:
    Tec, it's not what they have. It's how they got it.

    and..

    I do have something against somebody eating better food than I can when I'm buying theirs.

    tecumseh:
    and you actually think you know how they got it? projecting a bit is we? polishing up that crystal ball again I see.

    so the money for their dinner is actually coming out of your wallet? at least that would seem to be what you are saying when you say 'you are buying theirs'??

    I see a lot of young kids here at the local cow college driving automobiles that cost say anywhere from 30 to 50K +. most likely they did not earn the money and 5 will get you 10 that daddy takes the payment, the insurance and the credit card payment for the gas off on his business's income taxes. now I may think that it ain't proper for daddy to scam the government in this fashion but I have no envy for the kids driving those over priced cars. I do feel somewhat sad (for the young folks) that most will learn NOTHING here. I should point out that the 'local cow college' is a state school so the non education also required a good deal of state and federal tax payer subsidy. in comparison the subsidy for the 'food stamps' may be quite cheap??? <don't really know but I suspect it is.

    I guess when it come to this kind of issue Iddee I was always quite happy driving an old truck and eating a good bowl of beans (<actually kind of my demarcation of a good cook... after all anyone can burn a bit of meat but it takes a cook to make a good bowl of beans).

    Mark writes:
    So, maybe the problem is deeper and wider than a simple snapshot can illustrate.

    tecumseh:
    I think you are correct. I also don't believe the problem is new in it's origin. Industrial society has for a very long time had problems with fully employing it's citizens. This was never the case in agrarian or hunter/gather society where the hands of everyone was pretty fully utilized. So what happens when you have society defining a significant part of the population with nothing to do... nothing to keep the hands and minds occupied???

    not so oddly folks like Iddee see the immediate consequence and the cost of programs like food stamps (gosh I really though every state had moved a bit further along than that obsolete system???) but most folks never consider the cost if one had not gone down that road.
     
  19. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Tec, I don't know how you do it. You seem to disagree with everything I say, then turn around and say the very same thing in totally different words. You are a great phraseologist.
     
  20. sqkcrk

    sqkcrk New Member

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    Somebody mentioned Voting and Conflict of Interest as something to restrict those on Welfare/Public Assictance. Seems like all Gov. Employees and Military Personnel would have CoIs too. And all of us who in any way benefit from what we get from Government.

    So, that won't fly.