Making up frames?

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by brooksbeefarm, Jun 26, 2011.

  1. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    Just wondering? i've been making up frames (deeps and med.) and it takes me 40 to 45 minutes to make up 10 frames. The frames are already nailed together, this is the way i do it. I put the brass eyelets in, (two to the side, four to a frame) i put two cross wires in the middle of each frame. I take a case cutter and finish cutting the wedge out of the top bar and clean the gap with the case cutter. I put three nails in the wedge, i then put the foundation in the frame and secure it with the wedge. i then press the the wire into the foundation with the spur wire embeder. Seems like 40 to 45 minutes is a long time for 10 frames? Do some of you do it a different way thats faster? Jack
     
  2. riverrat

    riverrat New Member

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    your not going to get much faster than that doing it by hand. Thats at 4 minutes a frame. With all your doing that is a good time
     

  3. LtlWilli

    LtlWilli New Member

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    Yes, I'd say VERY good time. It takes me a bit longer...LOL
    LtlWilli
     
  4. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    Sounds about right to me. Never really timed myself, just a leisurely thing for me to do in the garage.

    I take the pocket knife and split out the wedge first and trim all of the excess off. Deeps and shallows both get two eyelets on each side, I found out doing this first is easier. Using a torx T10 screw driver to put the eyelets in works great. Fit 20 end bars into a frame jig like Kelley's sells. Glue and staple the top bars on, flip it over and glue and staple the bottom bars, flip on each side and staple the side to the top bar and dump them out. Over to the foundation device (again like Kelley's sells) in with the foundation followed by the wedge with 3 nails hammered in and a fourth nail on the left hand side bar for the tie wire. Pull the wire off of the wire device (again like Kelley's sells) run it through the eyelets, free end around the nail, pull out the slack, other end around the nail, hammer the nail in, clip the wire off and with the side cutters tap the ends down a bit. A couple of passes with the spur embedder and all done.

    I guess I am a little backwards from most, seems everybody else puts in the wire first then foundation.
     
  5. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    Sounds like quite good time to me. I have 24 medium frames to do tomorrow. Got a power stapler for fathers day gift and it does speed up frame assembly. Also slick for putting on the top wedge bar. One batch of wired wax we got needed a fair bit of trimming and had quite a tendency to not lie flat. This batch of wax for mediums is a pleasure.

    I am coming to understand why some people choose plastic!
     
  6. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    I make all my hives,lids,bottomboards, feeders, nuc's, ect except the frames. I buy the frames from a club member who makes and sells bee hives and equipment, the frames are already glued and stapled together, ($1.00 each.) he doesn't drill holes for the eyelets. I don't like cleaning the gap and triming the wedge, but it has to be done. I thought about trying the Fat beemans way with fishing line, you wouldn't have to put eyelets in and the fishing line would be cheaper (i think :confused: ) but i use a electric capping knife and as clumsy as i am i would touch the fishing line with it and have a mess. :roll: G3, the same goes for putting the wire in after putting the foundation in, it would have finger holes in it. :mrgreen:. It took me between two and a half to three hours to do two 10 frame med. and one deep and just thought, that don't look like much for the time i spent. I guess i'm to picky. :roll: Jack
     
  7. LtlWilli

    LtlWilli New Member

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    Not picky----just steady and calm...Enjoying a part of the biz that can be relaxing as watching them come and go in the hive doorway. I am not fast, but I make time ,and I enjoy that quiet time. I have gotten much faster than my novice times. Those were the doldrum days.
    LtlWilli
     
  8. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    Well my wife and hung wired wax foundation, cross wired and electric embedded 25 6 5/8 medium frames this morning. I need to watch a video to see what I am doing wrong!

    I dont find that simply slipping in the eyelets without setting them firmly keeps them from tipping or popping out when you hammer in the anchor nails or fish the wire through. I also like to end squeeze the frames before tightening the second anchor so that when released they are twangy tight.

    I have done a few frames with staples at the edge of holes to keep wire from cutting the wood but had a few wires snap where bent over the sheared edge of a staple. They are quicker and cheaper than eyelets but their sharp edges may be an issue.

    Some batches of wood and wax are a lot nicer to assemble than other sources. Had some wax that took half a minute a sheet to get the silly tissue paper plucked and scraped off them and fair few that needed wires trimmed. Good job for winter by the woodstove rather than when you are busy.
     
  9. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    Last frames and foundation I bought was from Brushy Mtn., pretty good quality and fit.

    Out of 100 frames only a couple of the top bars bowed a little but nothing to complain about.

    Their crimp wired wax foundation with hooks was also a quality product, this is the first foundation that I have bought in many years, bought out a retiring sideliners wax foundation of about 10 boxes.

    I only have Kelley's to compare this to though, of which I also think is a high quality product.
     
  10. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Brushy is a good quality frame and wax. The wax works best with grooved bottom frames. The Kelley frames and wax are top notch. Their wax works best with slotted bottom frames. It is a bit taller than Brushy or Dadant.
     
  11. Zulu

    Zulu Member

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    45 minutes sounds reasonable. I use a 10 frame jig. I glue up 10 and nail them. Then leave to dry. Takes about 20 minutes.


    Then I wire and use wax foundation and heat to fix it in place. Takes 15- 20 minutes typically I guess. As I have never done it start to finish I am only guessing 40-45 is about right.
     
  12. LtlWilli

    LtlWilli New Member

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    I need to rig up a jig, to shorten my work time. The usual way is OK. because I'm used to it. There is a jig in the Dadant catalog....Anything to accelerate my work would be a blessing.
    LtlWilli
     
  13. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    When i buy unassembled frames, i found that laying the sides on a flat surface and start the eyelet with the insertion tool and then smack it with a hammer makes a tight fit. :thumbsup:I put all the eyelets in before i assemble the frames. I've not had any fall out when i assemble the frame, keeps your wrist and arm from getting sore if you do alot of them. But that's just me. ;) Jack
     
  14. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    Thanks brooksbeefarm; I will definitely put the eyelets all in the sides before assembling the next batch I do. I have a bunch that also have no holes so will have to drill. To often in a hurry to get er done, we dont take the time to jig and organize ourselves and waste time in the long run.
     

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  15. 2kooldad

    2kooldad New Member

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    thats why i like plasticell...pop em in and your done...i have no desire to try wax foundation...guess its all what you start on but i love plasticell...have a problem...pop em right back out ;)
     
  16. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    Crofter, be sure to get the right drill bit , i made the mistake of using one to big on the assembled frames i bought, (only 10 of them) i ended up using them for comb honey frames.
    2kooldad, i'm not sold on plastic yet,(maybe it's the type) the two deeps that i put on hives (30 miles from home) two weeks ago had not been touched when i checked them yesterday :confused: . It was the snow white plastic foundation with a light coating of wax, i had even rolled more wax on it before i put it on. The same white plastic foundation i put in med. supers was drawn, filled and 3/4 capped. :thumbsup: I had rolled more wax on it also. With all the splits,nuc's, swarms,ect. i found myself with 74 hives and have used all the equipment i had stored (even some that was not so good. :roll:Like i said, i was desperate :mrgreen: . Jack
     
  17. 2kooldad

    2kooldad New Member

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    So far most of my bees dont care that much...when i got the carnys they had both 100% plastic and wood/plasticell frames in the nuc...my feral bees went from cutout into a deep with all wood/plasticell frames cept for the 3 frames of cutout comb...they went right to it...sometimes i have trouble with them starting on it...but i think its a ''when thing''...if they are in brood mode they build it no problem...in derth they dont touch it but very little...im thinking of it as a bank account...if i keep putting it in and rotating the frames out then i'll have stronger frames to store later without worrying about having to start back over if part gets ruined...i just scrape off the messed up part and they build it right back onto the missing part...thats how its worked so far anyways.
     
  18. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

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    About 35 years ago I bought several frames made of plywood---most of them are still in use today. The reason I mention them is that I found their biggest advantage to be that they don't need eyelets. The criss-cross pattern of the layers in plywood keep the wires from cutting the sidebars. Doing away with the need for eyelets would be a big savings of assembly time. The one minor disadvantage I found with them is that if the wires are pulled too taught, the plywood bottom bar tends to belly out, but I figure if one would use a combination of plywood or regular wooden tops and only plywood sideboards with a standard solid wood bottom board it should be a winning recipe.
     
  19. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    Never seen plywood frames, were these home made or store bought, if store bought who made them?
     
  20. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

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    Store bought,all assembled, manufactured in Israel. To be quite honest, I haven't seen them around for years--maybe others weren't as pleased with them as I was. But they are definitely worth a try if anyone has the basic woodworking equipment. Just to make the sideboards and use regular tops and bottoms shouldn't be a difficult project.