mystery solved....now to fix it

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by 2kooldad, Aug 27, 2011.

  1. 2kooldad

    2kooldad New Member

    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I posted a while back about my feral hive getting meaner....when i go into the hives i dont always go looking for the queen...if i see very young brood or eggs im satisfied an will stop so i do as little disturbing as possible...today i went back in the hive for the first time in two weeks...as soon as I puffed smoke under the lid i knew something was wrong...the pitch of the hive just kept getting higher an higher....ya get that 'hair on end' feeling like ya just put you foot down on a rattle snakes tail.....yea...that one....they are queenless....almost all of the capped brood is hatched out cept one frame and there are no eggs at all...they are starting to put honey an pollen in the middle of he frames....an they need a serious attitude ajustment....they were pissed....i had on my chain mail an helmet so i only got it a few times...i just happen to have a frame of eggs from the next hive over the size of a grapefruit....looks like ima be making a deposit....its kinda late for this....am i gonna have trouble with her getting bred this time of year ?????
     
  2. rast

    rast New Member

    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Probably not.
     

  3. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

    Messages:
    6,487
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    snip...
    almost all of the capped brood is hatched out cept one frame and there are no eggs at all.

    tecumseh:
    bee math (ie their biology) should tell you when the last of the workers are hatch should be about the time you have a new queen on board. add about 10 days beyond the last worker brood hatching and you should see the first eggs appear from the new queen.
     
  4. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

    Messages:
    3,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't know about FL. but here in SW. Mo. i'm not seeing many drones. :confused: This doesn't happen around here until Oct. With the hot weather and drought we've had, i guess the queens didn't think there was a need for them? My hives up north (60 miles) are bringing in nectar of some kind? some had full uncapped supers, but i didn't see anything in bloom that they are known to work. They had lots of worker brood and a little patch of drone brood in all of them. Sure has been a strange year :roll: Jack
     
  5. 2kooldad

    2kooldad New Member

    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I also have another option...i was thinking that i have a hive right next to it that is weak...the queen is filling out what she has so maybe she just needs more room and the workers would have alot of help building her some new comb to lay eggs in....if i combine them wont that solve 2 problems at once....what would happen if i just sat the big hive on with a vent lid ontop of the small one with say...a sheet of news paper inbetween them on a queen excluder...would they try an kill each other or would they chill out by the time they chewed through it and become one bigger hive ???
     
  6. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

    Messages:
    8,996
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It would work fine. Do it. Expect a few casualties, but there won't be many.
     
  7. 2kooldad

    2kooldad New Member

    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ima do that....it will cure the problem fast and i'll have an extra hive body to put on another hive i have...looks like they have been storing honey an pollen....white pollen probly from the elephants foot thats blooming now an maybe some partige pea...this is gonna work out good i can tell.
     
  8. crackerbee

    crackerbee New Member

    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    2KD
    I had the same happen to me this week with my 2 colonies that were 4 frame splits I got from ABK's bee workshop at U.S.F.,I was already suspecting both the last time I looked in on them on Aug. 15th.,when I noticed the capped brood dwindling,Friday when I looked in there was almost no capped brood(nor any other brood,larvae,or eggs) left.
    I was fortunate enough to find a guy that lives nearby that raises good mated queens for 18 bux each,so I requeened both and hopefully will see some improvement soon :beg: .
     
  9. 2kooldad

    2kooldad New Member

    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    the deed is done....i built a sorely needed new hive stand....placed it next to the old one...set the small hive on it an replaced the inner cover with a queen excluder and a layer of newspaper...then placed the large hive an its deep super on top of that with a vent top to cap it off...they were NOT happy when i was doing it but i think they've chilled out...a rap on the box at night yielded a nice normal hum....i didnt expect what they did with the paper tho....i figured they would toss it out the front door...instead they chewed it up into super fine sawdust an shoved it through the screened bottom board...thought that was kinda odd but whatever...didnt see any dead bees...so im guessing it worked...kool :)
     
  10. 2kooldad

    2kooldad New Member

    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    what should have taken place inside there....im going into it this week end to find the queen just to make sure...will i still find most of the bees in the top 2 storys or should they have combined forces an be hammering out comb for her in the bottom box...provided there is flow or feed.
     
  11. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

    Messages:
    3,708
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    :yahoo:
    Kooldad,We're all rooting for you---but remember what Iddee says:
    "Anything can happen"
     
  12. 2kooldad

    2kooldad New Member

    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Emmmm....hey buddy....im pretty confident....im sure you guys can tell what they had for breakfast by the pitch of their humming...im still learning that one...but i think i got it....there was a serious diffrence between a queenless hum an a queenright hum....when i heard that my first thought was ''do i run now ???''....thought their rubber band was gonna break...lol...i thunk the hives at night alot to see if things change pitch...mostly its just the same short low hum...i loved that it changed even if they were queenless cause i got to learn...now its back to the same old hum...oh...and they arent meeting me halfway to bump heads before i get there either...thats a good sign...i expected to see more bearding than i am...its 3 full hive bodys now...i sure hope that means they are busy making more comb :/
     
  13. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

    Messages:
    3,708
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I wonder if anyone ever prepared a set of recordings of bee sounds. You're right to learn their "melodies".
    I have two favorites: 1 when they are working a tree in full flower
    2. A swarm settling on an empty hive.
    Such beautiful music!!!!
     
  14. 2kooldad

    2kooldad New Member

    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    there is alot i'll need to learn...i also need to learn to read the front door...all this takes time though...my bees have never swarmed...ive been lucky that they have all been strong an pest resistant....i know it sounds odd but i look forward to things going wrong (or right depending how you look at it)...how else will i learn what to do or learn to see it comming before its to late...the SHB i dont get to mess with...the bees handle them pretty well...i assume i have varroa...everybody does right...im not looking forward to foulbrood though...i'll have to burn the hives if i get that.
     
  15. 2kooldad

    2kooldad New Member

    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    well everything has calmed down...they havent been the slightest bit aggressive....thing is i never read when to take the excluder off....if i had to guess id say as soon as they got used to each other....but if i leave it on do i have a better chance of them filling out the bottom box first...or wont it matter :/
     
  16. rast

    rast New Member

    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    At this point, I say take it off. If I read it right, you have a queen in the bottom below the excluder and a larger queenless hive above it. By now they have accepted each other and the queen (remote possibility of killing her very early in the process). Let her go up if she (and them) wants to. Been long enough to check for eggs anyway. Comb building is going to be awful stingy from now till next year except for swarms.
     
  17. 2kooldad

    2kooldad New Member

    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The hive i sat the queenless hive on top of already had brood....it was a small and late split that never built up alot of comb...ive never had a feeder on it....the hive i put on her was starting to build in the second box but stopped when the queen died....so i basicly have a hive right now that has a bottom box with max 4 drawn frames that were full of brood an little stores...a queen excluder....a second box that has almost all the frames drawn but no brood an some stores...an a 3rd box with maybe 2 drawn frames that they had started to fill...capped off with a top cover an vented lid....thats what it was when i put it together....its been about 2 weeks now...id like to end with 2 boxes of fully drawn frames.....this time of year thats asking alot i know but ima do the best i can....i need to make another gallon sized feeder lid...just one aint getting it :/
     
  18. rast

    rast New Member

    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    - My humble opinion. Assuming ten frame hives. Get rid of the excluder and top box. Put four more drawn frames in the bottom from the other two box's. Lots of empty space invites bugs. Sounds like you are going to have to feed for them to survive. Remember or learn that feeding time table's in our area is different from the North or South of us. We each need to feed during our respective dearths to continue brood raising. There is something to be said about giving them a break as they were originally genetically inclined to have. Just like up North in their winter, feeding for survival depends on stores. Here, ample stores plus feeding encourages brood raising. Time your spring feeding ahead of the red maple bloom. That will make it starting early Dec. usually.
     
  19. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

    Messages:
    8,996
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I would break the hive down and rebuild with only filled combs. Then finish the box with empty drawn comb. As Rast said, empty space is disastrous this time of year.
     
  20. 2kooldad

    2kooldad New Member

    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    what if i dont have enuff drawn comb to do that with....that might be a problem....i dont think there is a derth at the moment...they are def. Bringing stuff in....i have another 2 hives i think i might combine...then id end the year with three good hives instead of five weaker ones.