Need advice.

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by PerryBee, Jul 3, 2011.

  1. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    Here's what I have.
    A 5 frame nuc that I have is now confirmed with laying workers. The queen flew off after I had found her and a fistfull of bees under the nuc box. I saw eggs a few days later when I checked it but now see that they are drone only and now I am beginning to see multiple eggs. I actually picked up a spare queen today for another possible reason but am wondering if there is some way I can get her accepted by this nuc, or do I count my losses, make up another nuc and just shake this one out.
    Years ago I tried the old 100 feet away shake out and had the frames and a new queen awaiting those that made it back and it did work but I am told this is the exception. Seems to me you would lose any nurse bees as well, how would they know where home is?
    Any advice, the new queen is sitting in my kitchen cupboard as we speak.
     
  2. maddox65742

    maddox65742 New Member

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    If the new queen is put in the nuc, in a cage or screen, her pheromones will most likely overwhelm the laying worker's pheromones in a couple of days. The laying worker is not as strong. Check the queen cage in a few days to see whether they are feeding her gently or whether they are chewing at her and trying to kill her.

    If they are feeding her, she can be released and have the same normal chances of being accepted as every other queen. If they are still trying to attack her, you will have to go another route.

    The other route would be to make up a new split, introduce the queen, then when it is strong, combine the working layer nuc to this new nuc.

    Good luck.

    Jeffrey Maddox
    Bees, Trees, Plants and Dance
     

  3. Omie

    Omie New Member

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  4. srvfantexasflood

    srvfantexasflood New Member

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    He put the cage in sideways. Is there a reason he would do that? Would the bees be able to feed her that way? I always thought you slide her in so that the screen was exposed instead of facing a frame.
     
  5. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    It looked to me like a new hive, with 9 new frames of foundation and 1 frame of drawn comb. More a package install then a requeening.
     
  6. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    How about this:

    Take said nuc and set aside.
    Replace with nuc with nothing but foundation.
    Shake bees off in front of said nuc with foundation. (this would somewhat inteerupt the laying workers would it not?)
    Shake a few frames of bees from strong hive into nuc with original laying worker comb, move it, wait 8 hours and introduce new queen in cage.
    Deal with laying workers on foundation after a few days by combining with another hive.

    Is there anything about the comb from the laying worker nuc, ie brood pheromone, etc. that might interfere with this plan?
     
  7. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    Epilogue:

    I actually ended up doing something probably fairly routine. When I picked up the queen I couldn't help but notice how black she was, I mean not just dark, but real black. After going over the different scenarios in my head it boiled down to I didn't want to chance losing this particular queen to the laying worker nuc.
    I ended up making up another 5 frame nuc from a strong hive and popped her in that. Then I took the laying worker nuc and shook it out about 100' in front of 5 of my hives in that yard and popped those frames back into the one I made the nuc from. Lots of bees flying at the front of all the hives a few minutes later but I didn't notice anything (fighting) that set off any alarm bells. These hives were strong enough to ward off any laying worker assaults so I guess I'm alright. I never like giving up on a hive or even a nuc but sometimes you just have to cut your losses.
     
  8. Omie

    Omie New Member

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    Perry, that sounds like a great way to have handled it- I would have wanted to save that dark queen too! Is she Caucasian? Where'd you get her?
    Exciting!
     
  9. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    I got her from my regular guy in the Annapolis Valley here in Nova Scotia (where we are moving in a month or two). When I saw him pick her up out of the mating nuc I commented that I had never seen one that black before and he said it was ??? (forgot the name but remember it was very unusual, never heard of it before) and said it was a strain from the Ukraine.
    I was going to sell this nuc but I may hang on to it just because! ;)
     
  10. Omie

    Omie New Member

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    I don't blame you for wanting to keep her.

    So...what happened to the hive that you shook out and removed frames from to make the nuc? Did you put it into storage, or did bees come back to it? What will you do with it and the extra frames you shook off?
     
  11. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    It was a laying worker nuc I shook out. I shook off the bees and immediately put those frames back into the hive I had made the new nuc from (for the black queen). There was quite a commotion in the area where I shook them off (to be expected I'm sure) and a few minutes later there was a lot of flight activity in front of the 5 hives in the area where the nuc had been but I didn't actually see any fighting at the entrances. Time will tell, if a few corpses appear at some of the entrances I'll know why. There were not that many bees in the 5 frame nuc I shook out as the queen that it had raised was lost so there had been no new bees (worker) being born for quite some time.