New disease, I think, pls help me understand

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by fatscher, Oct 22, 2009.

  1. fatscher

    fatscher New Member

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    Has anyone heard of Snot Brood? No, it's not a joke, it's a new disease on the block (or at least it's new to me). I only wish it were a joke.

    I have AFB-like symptoms in one hive, except no sunken cappings, and no ropiness of decaying larvae. Also, no odor

    AFB symptoms include:
    1. Spotty brood pattern
    2. Sunken cappings
    3. Perforated cappings
    4. Pupal tongues piercing through cell walls
    5. pre-pupal larvae stretched out
    6. Dried scales
    7. Ropiness of decaying larvae

    I have symptoms listed from above (#1, 3, 5, 6) including pupae at all stages of development and decay. I was told this may be a virus, not a bacteria.

    If you provide other internet links, pls know that my I.T. firewall currently will not allow me to access them at the moment. So if you could kindly cut & paste the words from these sites to your reply I would greatly appreciate it!
     
  2. ski

    ski New Member

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    THis was on another site:


    Snot brood is not American Foul Brood -
    The larvae are white (or maybe very light tan) liquid (dissolving) PRIOR to capping.
    No scale, no dark discoloration
    If anything, it looks like EFB in that the infection is prior to capping.
    But again, no scale.

    I showed this to our State Apaiarist (I saw something I could not identify in two of my SARE colonies) and he described it as "snot brood" I thought at the time that he had made up the name himself. He states that he's seen it in commerical operations as they come through Maine. I imagine most hobby beekeepers in Maine aren't disease oriented enough to find it in early stages in their colonies. Jadczak is quite sure it is viral, not bacterial.

    Absent any other way to manage it, I have removed all nutritional stress from the colony that is most infected (feeding 1-1 and pollen substitute) in the hopes that the bees will clear it up themselves. The other colony has not exhibited any symptoms for 4+ weeks. I began feeding just prior to EAS and have not checked the brood in this colony since, only just quick changes of feed/pollen. I'd be happy to post results here once I've gone through again. Last time I looked, there was at least I'd say about 15% infection in open brood, including drone brood. This was a dramatic increase over prior full inspection, +- 3 weeks before. This hive did go through a queen replacement (via swarming) after I saw the initial infection and continued through to the new queen's larvae. Ugh.


    THis was posted from the Daily Green Newspaper
    Now, these bees, he said, were in Florida this winter on citrus, which have been treated to control the bug that transmits citrus greening. When they leave Florida they begin to show signs of something interestingly called ‘snot brood’, which looks like a whole class of other diseases, but isn’t. Scientists don’t know what it is, but there’s a pattern. Here’s the pattern ... bees come out of Florida after being on citrus (treated with a pesticide called Bravado), go to gallberry for more honey, and within a few weeks, once they finish blueberries in Maine and don’t have fresh food, they break down. The queen quits laying or dies, brood goes to that snotty condition and about half the colonies die. However, if they get fed fresh food ... protein ... they don’t. It’s when they start to eat their stored food in the colony that came from the treated citrus trees ... that they die.

    Here’s another pattern Dave and other beekeepers from Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida and other states have found. They’ve noticed that land that last season had sweet corn planted on it that was treated with Poncho insecticide, and this season is fallow and produces weeds ... specifically a certain kind of weed that usually follows sweet corn called mustard or yellow rocket ... the following year, has the best mustard they’ve seen ... bigger, more blossoms, more plants, more attractive to bees. And bees love mustard. It’s a great honey plant for early spring build up of overwintered colonies.

    What they guess, and it is a guess, is that the chemical that is still in the soil from last year is protecting the mustard plants this year because it lasts that long – in the soil. And since these chemicals are systemic, thus protecting the mustard plants ... it is getting into the pollen and nectar produced by the fragrant and bountiful mustard blossoms that the bees are visiting on this now very attractive plant?

    There’s more anecdotal evidence to support this second season killer. When pumpkins are grown on land that the previous year had sweet corn treated with Poncho are seeing untreated pumpkin tissue with three to four times the amount of insecticide in pumpkin plant tissue than new pumpkins that were simply treated during the second year. There seems to be a buildup the second, and even third year of these chemicals in the soil, that the plants are picking up.

    Are these nicotine insecticides helping to release additional chemicals that were bound in the soil, plus building up in the soil after repeated applications?



    Read more: http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmen ... z0UfZ2pCOV
     

  3. fatscher

    fatscher New Member

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    Something else i see in the frame is the dead larvae/pupae at ALL stages of development. There are bees dead as they are trying to emerge from cells. I might be in serious denial, but it looks to me like this is a case of chilled brood (in the sense that the nurse bees abandoned the brood comb to go into cluster -- we've had nights in the 30s, and one night dipped below freezing. Temperate Inland Coastal Virginia.

    The bees are not located near a major produce growing area, so I tend to not think chemicals is my main nemesis on this particular issue.
     
  4. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    interesting stuff and thanks for filling in some of the blanks...

    I would be curious if any nosema counts were made on the positively id hives?

    Why is the brood not removed? Is there no hygenic behavior (genetics) in play or perhaps no brood bees?
     
  5. Walt B

    Walt B New Member

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    I haven't checked his website, but when it comes to bee health investigations, the first person I think of is Randy Oliver at http://www.scientificbeekeeping.com. There may be additional information there.

    Walt
     
  6. alleyyooper

    alleyyooper New Member

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    What I would like to know is if there is a treatment for snotbrood. What happens if the hive is just left on it's own ?
    For that matter what happens to a hive with AFB and is just left on it's own?

    :D Al