Odiferous Certan?

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by Tia, Feb 25, 2011.

  1. Tia

    Tia New Member

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    One of the newbees in our club has asked me a question I'm not sure I have the answer for. He said he put some Certan on "foundation"--here I'm not sure whether he's talking about foundation or drawn comb and I've written back to ask him--and that there is a lingering odor. I've never noticed Certan to have an odor and it is my understanding that it doesn't go bad, so I'm not sure what to tell him. What I did say was that if it was drawn comb and he was sure there was no disease in his hives, or if it is foundation, that there shouldn't be a problem; he should just air it out and then give it to the bees.

    Have any of you ever noticed a lingering odor after using Certan?
     
  2. BjornBee

    BjornBee New Member

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    Tia,

    I have not noticed any lingering odor.

    I would like to suggest reading "altering Ph levels in the hive" (near the bottom) of the page of this link... http://www.bjornapiaries.com/beekramblings0910.html

    Bacillus thuringiensis (B.T.) comes in many forms of sub-species. (BT kustaki as example use for tomatoes, and another subspecies for Japanese beetles, and so on.)

    Each is a designer spore that is viable or reacts in the gut of the intended larvae of what is being killed. (It reacts when a certain ph level is found) And most in the lab has been shown to be safe for bees with normal ph levels.

    But what about bees when outside influences such as a particular nectar source (like blueberries), a particular treatment (acid treatments) or even a antibiotic (fumagilin) alter the bees internal gut ph level? It would not take much to make spores that seemed safe in the lab, detrimental to bees actually in the field under real world circumstances. That model of failure happens all the time when lab results are far different than that experienced in real world field application.

    There are many ways to protect comb from wax moths. Why beekeepers seek the easiest appraoch by adding chemicals, and other inert ingredients into a hive, sometimes ends in results we did not intend. The inert ingredients in such products amount to better than 99% of the total ingredients. Check out the label of any such BT product. The manufacturers are not required to list inert ingredients of what you may be pouring into your hive. And we know that inert ingredients can, and do, mix with other chemicals with negative results. These products are designed to apply to a fruit or vegetable, a period of time goes by before the food crop is picked, you can wask off the residue, and no real harm is found. You don't get that option of washing off excess B.T product when its in the hive, in the honey, etc.

    I know this a bit deeper than what you were asking for.

    Anyone who claims anything is safe based on a manufacturers label, and many times for situations where items are added that would not be there naturally....many times comes back 20 years later to be found harmful.

    Almost every bee treatment from 20 years ago is now found to be detrimental to bees. So what we will find twenty years from now?

    Yes, some will say that this product or that product is safe. But the mixing, adding, and combining of everything we put in the hive, what the bees drag in from down the road, and other factors.....makes for a very unclear picture as to what is safe and unsafe.

    I don't put anything in my hive that I don't need too. And I know I can protect comb without spraying my comb and hive with a product I certainly woud not be eating or drinking myself.

    Just something to consider..... ;)
     

  3. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Certan doesn't go bad UNTIL it is mixed with water. Then the spores "hatch?" Whatever a spore does. If it isn't in a host where it can feed, it dies. If he mixed it a few days before using it, or didn't give it time to evaporate the water off before closing up the boxes, the spores likely died. When I first started using it, I found that after about 3 days, while still in the spray bottle, it smelled like rotten meat. Later, I sprayed a few boxes of frames and immediately stored them in a damp area without giving them time to dry first. They also smelled of rotten meat. Once that happens, it is no longer effective.
     
  4. rast

    rast New Member

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    IDDEE learned like I did. Spray with only fresh mixed BT and give them time to dry. Knowing that bees rely so much on smell, I melted my stinky comb down.
    By the way, I don't NORMALLY spray "honey comb" for storage, just frames that have had brood in them. Just try to not mix them in the same super for storage.
     
  5. Sundance

    Sundance New Member

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    When mixing dry forms of Bt you generally have 3 days
    to use it, then toss. It's like any organic solid, when mixed
    with water and allowed to sit it will turn bad.