Old hives holding up.

Discussion in 'Building plans, blueprints, and finished projects' started by crazy8days, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. crazy8days

    crazy8days New Member

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    Ok, this might open a can of worms. But, I'm going to do it anyways! lol I've been making my own hive boxes using finger joints. I don't have a dado blade yet so I go to my brothers. They are a pain in the butt to make but lock in nicely and squaring them is easy. They do use a lot of screws! 40 screws box! I need to make more and was wondering about rabbet joints. Easier to make, less end grain. A little more work to square up. But, I like to know how well do they hold up years down the road. I glue everything with Titebond III and use deck screws on all my boxes but, I wouldn't have to use soooo many!

    Upside?

    Downside?
     
  2. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    All upside IMHO! :thumbsup: I haven't had one come apart yet, and I have had some of the finger jointed ones I purchased hold water in those corners and go bad.
    Good glue and a total of 12 screws.

    Frame rests 010.jpg Frame rests 005.jpg
     

  3. ApisBees

    ApisBees Active Member

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    Have both The first boxes I made 30 years ago were dado and I have some that are finger joint having ran a factory that made them. have some of the origonal boxes still and some of each type have self destructed. The life of a box has more to do with wood than the building methods. I have had boards used in hives go punky soft and rote in 5 years time. The wood has checked and cracked badly causing boxes to break in two. If would not matter which method was used.with finger joint you end up with a stronger box because you are forced to install more nails or screws. One advantade to finger jount is while asembling it is easyier to pull in warped side boards.
     
  4. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    If your fence and saw blade is true square to the table the resulting rabbets do a fair job of self squaring the box on assembly. I have made both and agree on the aesthetics of finger jointed boxexs but it takes far more horsepower, makes more dust, and dulls up expensive cutlery. Thin kerf carbide blades for rabbets are ~$3.55 a blade.
     
  5. blueblood

    blueblood New Member

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    I transform the weakest joint, the butt joint, into one of the strongest using the Kreg joinery system and Titebound II. 12 screws on deeps and 8 on mediums. The butt joint also reduces end grain exposed to 50%.
     
  6. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    I'm with blueblood, but i use Titebound III and 1"x2" across front and back fore hand holds.Not as pretty as the others, but are just as strong and warmer and the girls haven't complained. To me it's the type of lumber and mostly the paint that makes them last. Jack
     
  7. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    ok, this is over my head, but can someone show me a really good picture of a box built with rabbet joints? Because I either buy fingerjointed boxes, or find a way to make boxes within my ability and equipment. I am a fan of less exposed endgrain however.
     
  8. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    Han's Shop 2.jpg Hans' Shop 6.jpg

    Hey Gypsi, these are the best pics I could come up with.
    These are the end pieces, the side pieces have no cuts.
     
  9. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Pretty nifty. That I could maybe learn to do. Thank you Perry
     
  10. Zulu

    Zulu Member

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    image.jpg

    Here are comparisons between box joints and rabbet joints.
     
  11. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    of course crazy8 how you maintain thing does make a lot of difference. repair chinks and more importantly painting will make a lot of difference in how things last and of course there are various levels of quality in the lumber which also makes some small difference. there are climate concerns that may contribute to the bee wares lasting longer or not.

    I now have both types although I am slowly converting almost everything to manufactured boxes. there are a number of reasons for this.... empty weight being the first concern since all my old home made lap joint boxes are made from southern yellow pine they are also quite heavy.

    the greatest difference I have seen in the use of these two types of boxes is how they stand up on the road. I would suspect you will not be putting bees on a semi and shipping them half way across the country so the real significant difference should be minimal.
     
  12. BoilerJim

    BoilerJim New Member

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    Brett,

    I've been making box joints. I use TitebondIII, no screws - I use long staples, and lots of paint on the board ends.
     
  13. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    any of you beeks remember when we were hand nailing the boxes.......:lol:

    i do as others here now, i use the titebond glue, and for repairs or new equipment, and an alternative to deck screws are trim head screws. the thinner head doesn't split the wood when driven in.

    gypsy, if your looking to make your own boxes, give the kreg joinery system dave mentioned a lookie see. it works well, not complicated and makes a strong joint as he said.

    i will also agree with what jack and tec said about the 'treatment' of the boxes, painting or staining. i use a white deck stain on my deeps, and new equipment gets a coat of primer. for my supers i use the 'oops' paints i find in the big box stores.
     
  14. Zulu

    Zulu Member

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    I still hand nail my boxes , very satisfying to thump a nail in one hit :razz:
     
  15. blueblood

    blueblood New Member

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    Good looking boxes Zulu!
     
  16. crazy8days

    crazy8days New Member

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    Jim,

    What size staples are you using? I rather cut box joints. I use the TitebondIII, pre-drill and counter sink so screws won't split. It takes forever!!!! Prime and paint.
     
  17. BoilerJim

    BoilerJim New Member

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    Brett,

    I use a pneumatic gun that shoots small brad type nails or staples. I use staples on my box joints and I "think" the staples are 1 1/2" long. I'll double check that when I get home tonight. The staples don't split the wood. Only 2 years worth of use from those boxes but...... so far so good.
     
  18. crazy8days

    crazy8days New Member

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  19. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    "do you use small brushes to spread glue? "

    crazy8, you asked this question of jim, the small brushes are nice. i sometimes put the glue in a smaller bottle with a thinner nozzle, sometimes not. i zigzag the glue, or run a strip down the center. when you put the joints together, it 'squishes' the glue across the surface to be joined. if you get a little much, and it 'squishes' out a bit, a wet damp rag cleans it off.
    :grin:
     
  20. crazy8days

    crazy8days New Member

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    If I got a lot to glue I'll take a water bottle and cut it into a small cup. Squirt glue into it and use it that way. Brushes work really well on end grains where it is more porous. You know the glue is in every spot.