Opps! I need HELP!

Discussion in 'Swarms, Cut outs, and Trap outs' started by Dakine, May 1, 2012.

  1. Dakine

    Dakine New Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I thought I had everything in hand. I was preparing to cut a hive out of my garage wall. "Best laid plans etc!!!!
    I had a deep 10 frame langstroth box with 5 frames done needing 5 more. Bee vac built and ready to go.
    Opps! I notice the hive isn't very active anymore thinking they had swarmed. Yeah looks like I was correct as my neighbor a 1/4 mile away informs me he has a swarm in his yard.
    I shot up to his house and sure enuf a football size swarm was on a bush in his yard. I put it in the deep box with the 5 frames. Now I don't know what to do?
    I have it all closed up NEAR the old hive that's in my garage wall which is still a bit active.
    I'm not positive the swarm did come from my garage hive but it may have.
    I want to save the hive in the box but also keep the hive in the garage to take later when it builds up again.
    Should I open the box, add 5 more frames and feed them and leave it open?
    Feed them with the box closed?
    Move them a good distance away?
    Put the box right close to the old hive and treat it like a package of bought bees?
    As you can see I'm up the good old "dakine" creak without a paddle.
    I'm new at this and your help will be appreciated.
    Mahalo,
    Dakine guy!
     
  2. Intheswamp

    Intheswamp New Member

    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm a newbee, so take this with a grain of salt.

    The swarm colony is a new colony, treat it as a separate colony from the bees in the garage wall.

    Leave the colony in the garage wall alone. They will requeen if nothing bad happens to them...cutting out while they're trying to requeen seems like it could be disastrous for them.

    The swarm colony should not be bothered by being in the vicinity of the old swarm...they have "forgotten" about it. If they find the cavity offered to be to their liking they will stay in it. No need to carry the swarm colony off to a distant spot.

    Allow the swarm colony to come and go from the box. Add the other frames. If you don't have a flow going then add some 1:1 syrup. *If* you can get to a little bit of open brood from the other hive you might put it in the swarm colony's hive...it will help to anchor them to that cavity...they won't desert the open brood. If you can't get some open brood then just some old comb would help.

    The swarm should be a wax making machine right now. They're heavy with honey and geared to get new comb going for their queen to lay in. Set'em up like a new package (like you mentioned), feed'em if no flow, and let'em be for a week to 10 days. Watch them, though.

    Best wishes!
    Ed
     

  3. dr.buzz

    dr.buzz New Member

    Messages:
    288
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    *** It's a win-win for you, maybe. If it was your wall hive that swarmed, you captured it and have a nice bunch of bees primed to draw comb like crazy, complete with a queen. If it was me, I'd leave the wall hive alone for a 4-5 weeks and then do the cutout. That way the new queen can emerge, get mated, come back and be accepted as the queen and start laying. Then when you cut them out, you have another complete hive with a young queen primed to lay eggs like crazy. If you want to let them get a brood nest established with the new queen, leave them a few weeks longer than 4 or 5. I think you have kept bees before if I remember correctly, so you probably already know this, but you want to feed the new swarm 1:1 sugar syrup since they are mostly nurse bees and won't have many foragers for a while. As far as how close to the wall hive you put the swarm, I don't think it matters. I often capture a swarm and set them up in a new box 3 feet away from the parent colony.

    [edit]
    ***In the time it took me to type all that, intheswamp replied with what looks like about the same advice.
     
  4. Intheswamp

    Intheswamp New Member

    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I got to thinking about it and this is going to be easier on you. With the cutout you indeed would have to set the cutout colony up somewhere a few miles away to "erase their gps". This way (via the swarm) they've already done that. Lot's easier this way.

    As for when to cut out the colony still in the wall, I'm not sure. Seems the fewer the bees to deal with the better. Right now that colony probably has a higher percentage of nurse bees than foragers...the nurses haven't imprinted on the hive's location yet and so could be moved without much issue. BUT...you've still got some fragile queen cells in there or maybe a virgin taking her mating flights...things I would try to avoid interfering with right now. I'm sure someone more experienced than me will speak up as to timing on removing the wall hive.

    Anyhow, just some more thoughts...

    Ed

    ETA: I think I would definitely wait until I saw foragers bringing in pollen before doing the cutout. This way you know that the queen is laying and that young larvae is there or just about to be. Having young larvae is insurance in case something happens to the queen...they can use the young larvae to requeen.
     
  5. Intheswamp

    Intheswamp New Member

    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ditto on what Dr. Buzz said...(great minds and all that! ;) ). Might want to tone down the sugar ratio a bit...looking at diabetic coma for them bees.<grin>

    Ed
     
  6. dr.buzz

    dr.buzz New Member

    Messages:
    288
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Actually I think the parent colony has more foragers than nurse bees. It's my understanding that the swarm queen needs wax builders with her, and that's young bees. I'm not sure what the exact ratio is, but I think it's mostly nurse bees that swarm with the old queen.
     
  7. dr.buzz

    dr.buzz New Member

    Messages:
    288
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks, I just fixed that. Yes, 11:1 syrup would be a bit rich :) 1:1 is the way to go.
     
  8. Intheswamp

    Intheswamp New Member

    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks for that, db. What you've stated makes sense, but something else that may point to nurse bees going with the old queen is the fact that they are young bees and will live longer...thus producing for the colony for a longer time than the older bees could. This would allow the colony to build up before a good many bees start dieing from old age.

    On another note, I've read where older bees can downshift back into a previous job if the colony needs dictate it. Seems that wax building was one of those jobs, but I may be in error and it may be physiologically impossible. ???

    Ed
     
  9. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

    Messages:
    8,996
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Just set the box in your yard where you want your apiary. It doesn't matter in relation to the barn hive. Get that box full of frames quick, release the bees, and feed 1:1 sugar water. They will draw comb where there's no frame before drawing on frames. Push all frames TIGHTLY together and center them in the box.

    Then go buy another empty hive. The barn will likely swarm again within 2 weeks. Maybe today, so don't get caught with no place to put them.
     
  10. dr.buzz

    dr.buzz New Member

    Messages:
    288
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That's interesting that you say that. I often don't know which colony of mine might have swarmed. If I don't see it happening and don't have any obvious drop in visible population, I have too many colonies to dig through all of them looking for swarm cells....In your experience, how often does a colony throw a secondary swarm? I've heard of hives that will deplete itself by throwing swarm after swarm, but haven't experienced it yet...
     
  11. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

    Messages:
    8,996
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    They will swarm until the numbers and empty space is suitable for them to expand. They will not stay overcrowded with no storage or brood space. How many swarms depends on the strength of the colony and size of the hive cavity. A barn in Hi. I would think might be quite strong.
     
  12. Dakine

    Dakine New Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So leave the entrance/exit wide open??? Some said to leave wide open and some said to make it REAL small.
     
  13. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

    Messages:
    3,708
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Both are right. The entrance should be adjusted to the size of the colony--allowing them easy entrance and exit but not so large as to be unprotectable by the guard bees. This is more important after the honey flow comes to an end and robber bees are on the prowl for a free meal. While the flowers are in full bloom, it's less of a worry so it's good to keep it wide open to allow easy access and ventillation (for drying out the nectar).
     
  14. Dakine

    Dakine New Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Swarm was/is the size of a football. I'l leaving 8" of a 3/8" horizontal opening.
    I guess I'll just watch it and see if robber bees get by the guards. Right now there isn't any guard bees at all. I did put 6 oz of 1:1 sugar water In a 4" overhead shim box. Layed 2 zip locks with the sugar water on top the 10 deep wax coated frames.
     
  15. vermillion

    vermillion New Member

    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    brah!!! deez bees keepn' ya hoppin' cuz!
    i like try come ovah der an' see dat fo real kine!!!

    Seriously...you are doing an awesome job of getting back into bees!! hats off to you,
    I hope the swarm stays put..I am rooting for you, dakine!!
     
  16. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

    Messages:
    8,996
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I hope you filled the 4" shim with crumpled newspaper or something. Otherwise, they will hang comb from the inner lid and not the frames.
     
  17. Dakine

    Dakine New Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Darn! No I didn't. So I should find another way to feed them or fill the 4" shim with something so they can't build comb in the shim ?

    Thanks iddee and sista vermillion.
     
  18. Dakine

    Dakine New Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ]Darn! No I didn't. So I should find another way to feed them or fill the 4" shim with something so they can't build comb in the shim ?
    As of today [May2] the bees are not doing much. No guard bees. Just a few bees coming and going. I'll open it up today and see what's happening.
    Aloha Dakine Guy!
     
  19. barry42001

    barry42001 New Member

    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    down here in florida, we are already in the high 80's low 90's. I give the girls a full entrance , no upper entrances YET, but to come. Ventilaation is extremely important, so kinda bear that in mind when considering entrance reducers. Good job keep up the good work, keep us appraised.
    Barry
     
  20. Dakine

    Dakine New Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I will have to consider high temperatures also as it can get pretty hot here in the summer in Molokai also. Someone on here mentioned that they put their hives in FULL sun. Something about mites or beetles? Right now my "hive" is in the sun until about noon.
    When I checked it the bees were ALL working on the foundation. Only a few bees in the 4" feeding shim on top. There wasn't any making comb in it. There is only 2 frames of bees . I didn't want to disturb them so I didn't pull any frames up so I didn't see if there was any comb built on the foundation yet or not as bees were blocking my vision.
    I don't have any idea if I have the queen or not?
    I put more 50/50 sugar water in the top feeder [plate with the water and some small pieces of wood for the bees to stay out of the water on and closed it back up. I also put some small sponges in the water that's in the plate!
    What should my next moves be? If ANY???
    How long should I wait to go in and check it for brood or action or what ever?
    Thanks,
    Dakine guy.