Posted for Helen after she posted on chatbox.

Discussion in 'Beekeeping 101' started by Iddee, May 7, 2010.

  1. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    I have a question. I picked up my bees (Carnoilian) and I installed a bee package Friday, May 30th. On Saturday, May 1st, several dozen bees moved about 15 feet away on the ground and seemed to be swarming. I put as many back as I could and the rest returned to the hive by evening. On Tuesday, around 100 bees moved about 40 feet away to my garden and appeared to swarm on the ground. As a side note: the queen was in her little cage on Saturday, but she was out of the cage Monday. The majority of the bees were still in the hive. I waited until Wednesday evening and literally moved them with a shovel, making several trips and gently placing them in front of the hive. They went back in the hive over night and have stayed there so far. Does anyone have any ideas of what is going on and what I should do? I really do not want to lose all my bees! I live in NE Ohio. Thanks, Helen
     
  2. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    You likely had a queen in the package that was shaken in accidentally. They will likely work it out and the hive will be fine. If your caged queen was marked, you may find her, or you may find an unmarked queen that was in the package. Give them a week and look for eggs and larva.
     

  3. Helen

    Helen New Member

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    Thank you Iddee! As of this afternoon, everyone seems to be calm and doing fine. Since they have plenty of sugar water, I think I am going to let them go for a few days before I bother them again. Another question: In the beekeeping book, it says you should watch the bees to see where they are going to feed. I have not seen the bees on any flowering plants on my land. I have 25 acres and my blueberries are in bloom. I not seen any bees near the blueberries. Is there any way they can be encouraged to polinate the blueberries? The only other flowers in bloom right now are wild honeysuckle. It is everywhere!
     
  4. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    They will pollinate the blueberries. It may only be at certain hours of the day, but they will get it done. They have many trees full of flowers to work, which will give a greater reward for time spent.
     
  5. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    It is my understanding that bees do not utilize honeysuckle. I have seen it reported that blueberries is not the best of nectar plants for honeybees. in this circumstance feeding a new package would seem to be absolutely essential.

    I wondered from post #1 if Helen was feeding this new package. Iddee analysis of the situation seems quite correct although I wouldn't be surprised if the queen in the package was not a virgin... that is not fully mated and therefore capable of slipping thru a queen excluder. some folks suggest placing a queen excluder between the bottom board and the first box to keep a mated queen from leaving the newly established hive.

    ps... It seems that some bees (speculatively those with a large dose of hygenic tendencies) may remove the color dot from the back of a queen. I have noticed it here on several occasions.
     
  6. the kid

    the kid New Member

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    Another question: In the beekeeping book, it says you should watch the bees to see where they are going to feed. I have not seen the bees on any flowering plants on my land. I have 25 acres and my blueberries are in bloom. I not seen any bees near the blueberries. Is there any way they can be encouraged to polinate the blueberries?
    I have 6 fruit trees from 30 feet to 400 feet from my hives . had hives here 4 years , last year was the first year I had seen the girls on the trees . the girls tell me were and when they want to go , each year they go over the fence the same way headed south south east , I have no idea were they go because I seldom see more then a few bees in my yard ...
     
  7. rast

    rast New Member

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    A couple of years ago, I set down by a hive with a bee book and tried to read it to them so they would understand what was expected of them. They flunked and dropped out of school :D .
    Seriously, if they have found something flowing, earlier, more abundant, producing more nectar per bloom or easier to work, they will stay with it. That is why, for instance cucumbers, late bloomers, no nectar, if you are pollinating them, you don't want to put your hives in until the day before the major bloom opens (a guessing game). If you put them in too early, they may find something better sooner and ignore the cuc's.
     
  8. Helen

    Helen New Member

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    I checked the bees this afternoon and I am now less certain of what is going on then before. I did not see any brood cells, but the is a large "lumpy" cell sticking out from the center of the 2nd hive. I would think this is a queen cell, but I can't figure out why there would be a new queen cell now. If there were a viable queen, I would think she would be filling cells with brood and no queen cell would be needed. If there isn't a viable queen, then who laid the queen cell egg???

    Otherwise, everyone seems happy and calm. They are eat8ing from the pail feeder and polen patty and going out foraging. We had 2 days of very cold (upper 40's and low 50's), rainy weather and there was NO activity. It is now near 60 and sunny and everyone is out foraging.

    Does anyone have any ideas?

    Thaks,
    Helen
     
  9. rast

    rast New Member

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    Unfortunantly Helen, all I have is "ideas".
    First, no matter our experiance, reading, education, etc., the bees still know more than us concerning what is going on in the hive. What we see them doing can sometimes lead us to help them. Sometimes harm them from trying to help.
    You said second hive, do you mean second frame or do you have more than one hive?
    From your original post, you may have also had an unmated queen, 2 queens, a "damaged" queen, a queen the bees don't like, or a good queen with lost bees.
    Without seeing the "lump" it's hard to say. For the past couple of years it's been very common for package bees to supercede the queen shipped with them.
    Just because a queen cell has been made does not mean there is a larva in it. Is it hollow or capped over on the bottom? Also look for little C shaped larva curled up in the very bottom of the cells.
    If you only have the one hive your options are limited. Patience and see what you have at the end of this week, install another queen and see if they take her or discard her.
     
  10. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Along with answering Rast's questions, tell us how many hives you have and how long you have had them.

    A drone cell looks rounded like the end of a bullet. A queen cell looks like a peanut hanging on the side or bottom of the frame.


    Two queen cells......


    [​IMG]
     
  11. Helen

    Helen New Member

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    Thank you for your comments. In the picture your sent, the bigger blobs look like the one I was describing. I have on hive and I am new to this. I just got my bees April 3oth, 2010. When I wrote hive, I meant another 8-frame super or box. I have 2 medium supers at the bottom (over the screen board) with frames in them. The bees are all over both of them, but no brood, only the one big egg. Mext, I have the inner lid with a pail feeder on top of it. I have 2 empty supers to cover the pail and then the outer lid or telescoping lid. I don't want to open the hive again this soon to look for a larva in the big egg. I will wait until Friday. Today is again very cold and raining, so the bee are all inside. It will be only a high in the 50s. I appreciate all your ideas! thinks, Helen
     
  12. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    I would check it on the first sunny, 65 degree day. When the cell gets capped over can tell you a lot about the hive, and what to look for.
     
  13. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    I may have misunderstood something Helen wrote but...

    I get the idea Helen installed a package April 30 but already has two boxes installed over a bottom board and queen excluder?

    at 55 degrees I have no hesitation to open a hive up for feeding. any inspection requiring the the removal of frames should take place when the temperature rises above 60.
     
  14. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    What did you not understand? I suggested watching the queen cell and recording date of capping when the temp. was 65 and sunny, not 55. For feeding only, yes, 55 is fine.
     
  15. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    iddee writes:
    What did you not understand?

    tecumseh:
    in post 11 Helen say she install the package April 30 in two mediums???? now this 'package' is about 15 days old installed in two mediums in a climate that may still be experiencing cool temperatures. installing a package in two mediums might be ok in North Carolina or Texas at this time of year. Canton, Oh.. I don't know????
     
  16. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    If you are thinking too much space, you may have something, but I would think they would just migrate to the top, unless she installed the queen in the bottom. Keeping the top medium heated with the temp. above 10 or 15 F. shouldn't be that much problem, I don't think.

    If that doesn't cover what you are thinking, I'm the one that doesn't understand.
     
  17. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    yea Iddee that is exactly what I was thinking and then I started to wonder about the position of the queen excluder in that large space and also not knowing if the feed(er) was below or above or???????

    anyway it was just a question that went thru my mind (and right out the other side with no problem).
     
  18. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    First, it is two 8 frame mediums. One 10 frame deep is equal to 15 medium frames, so she only has 1 medium frame more than a 10 frame deep. Plus the 8 frame ihas less width to heat, so should more than make up for that.

    Secondly, I didn't see an excluder mentioned. Was there?
     
  19. Helen

    Helen New Member

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    Hi Everyone,

    No, I have not used a queen excludedr. I have two medium 8-fram boxes on the bottom, both with 8 frames in the. Then I have the inner cover, then a pail feeder covered with two more 8-frame boxes and finally, the outer cover. I am going to go out later today and see if there is any brood in either box and check to see what is happening with the one queen cell. I will write about it later. Thanks,
    Helen
     
  20. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    for a package and a screened bottom board it still sounds like to much room to me.

    anyway keep us posted Helen we are all setting on the edges of our seats out here in the audience.

    and good luck on the beekeeping...