Putting comb back like you found it?

Discussion in 'Beekeeping 101' started by wyvern, May 20, 2012.

  1. wyvern

    wyvern New Member

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    I have seen several references to taking the frames or top bars out for inspection, and always see that you are supposed to put them back in the same orientation as you removed them. Why? What will happen if I put one back rotated 180 degrees? Inquiring minds want to know.[​IMG]
     
  2. Omie

    Omie New Member

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    Sometimes there might be a good reason to put a frame back the other way around- like encouraging them to draw the other side if they were ignoring the side against the box wall....or giving the queen a side of open cells to lay in rather than a side of capped honey.

    But unless you have some reason to flip a frame, it's quite possible that doing so might set them back some unknown amount of time (12 hours? 3 days?...), or it might break up the brood nest at a time when you wouldn't necessarily want to.

    I found that spending a few dollars on a frame rest is worthwhile, since you can hang up to 5 frames on it and keep them facing the same way and in the same sequence as when you take them out. make it real easy to put the frames back in the same way.
     

  3. riverrat

    riverrat New Member

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    I like to think the bees have things arranged the way they want them. So I try to leave them has I found them. :thumbsup:
     
  4. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    They draw the comb to the width needed to make the proper bee space. It is best to maintain this space unless you have a reason to change it.

    IE. One comb too wide. Push it against another wide one and they will remove enough to make the proper bee space.
     
  5. wyvern

    wyvern New Member

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    Thanks folks, that makes perfect sense. I need to get a frame rest. Have a problem with CRS:think:
     
  6. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    what Omie said and what is CRS?
     
  7. Omie

    Omie New Member

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    Compulsive Reversal Syndrome maybe ? lol!
     
  8. oblib

    oblib New Member

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    Can't remember s... err poop:thumbsup:
     
  9. Omie

    Omie New Member

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    Sometimes I think I reverse or move frames around more than I really should. It's so tempting to think we know better than the bees as to where things should be located in the hive, and it's probably too much fun to do a little 'housekeeping' when I'm in there. This may be setting my bees back more than I first thought. Unless it's needed for swarm control or giving the queen places to lay, I'm going to try to resist it more!
     
  10. HisPalette

    HisPalette New Member

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    We flip the honey frames and checkerboard with empties, but leave the brood frames alone for the most part...
    Weird question from today's inspection - found drone brood on both sides of one foundation less frame... cut off half on each side...saw maybe a total of 10 varroa on the larva I cut out. I also put it to the far right against the side if the box. Should I have totally pulled it and froze it? > last month daily was 10 this month was 14 - 3 day IPM
     
  11. Zookeep

    Zookeep Active Member

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    I use a permanent marker and put a X at 1 end of the frame along the hole box that way I always keep them the same direction, when flipping frames back and forth looking at it sometimes gets hard to remember what side went where:lol:
     
  12. wyvern

    wyvern New Member

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    THATS What it is!
     
  13. wyvern

    wyvern New Member

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    Awesome idea! I will have to do that. Thanks!
     
  14. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    I myself move frames about a bit to somewhat encourage or discourage certain things. like...

    a hispallett snip...
    I also put it to the far right against the side if the box.

    tecumseh:
    a perfect example... you place this drone comb where 1) the queen is not so likely to lay and 2) drone comb works perfectly fine to store nectar.

    if the drone comb you exposed was of any significant numbers 10 varroa is fairly insignificant. three varroa on 10 drone pupae and I begin to worry... multiple varroa on individual pupae is a good sign that a hive is headed for trouble. since I don't treat for varroa (or much of anything else for that matter) this typically mean a hive is destined to be broken down into X number of smaller parts, the brood cycle significantly interrupted and new queens (preferably with cells) installed in each of the parts.
     
  15. HisPalette

    HisPalette New Member

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    Hey, Tec, Understand most of what you are saying - I Think! You mean: Not to worry yet because the numbers are not high yet?

    I have been watching it and feel they really do need a sugar shake, but I know this hive needs numbers, afraid shake may cause a loss of exposed brood. (swarmed when there were 3 queens when I did a split - bad timimg and inexperience about supercedure cells) Double boo boo! :doh:Have 3 young hives, now, and all that goes with weak hives... fingers crossed we stay ahead of the pests, because I don''t treat either.

    I am considering the split to put a break in the brood cycle if I see the numbers creep up again the next check in a couple weeks. And glad to get the confirm on the drone brood.. I remember a recent post about putting the larger cell comb in a honey location. (See I am paying attention!)
     
  16. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    yes I think you got my message (I wasn't certain how many drone pupae you had looked at???). I was (in my prior post) trying to define 'the varroa problem' in a relative kind of way. my method of keeping tabs on varroa population is to pluck seal drone pupae.

    I myself have no problem moving frames around but I always have a reason for doing this and some experience in recognizing the down side of the process I am using... reversing boxes (which I typically do twice a year or more) is of course moving frames about in a different dimension. any number of other manipulations (some of which I think of as potentially dangerous for a new bee keeper's hives) all require some moving of frames about.
     
  17. HisPalette

    HisPalette New Member

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    I uncapped approximately 80 cells on each side of that frame. It is a
    small to medium size colony - April's 3 day count = 10 / May's 3 day count =14

    The smaller split from the colony May's count = 9 (first one) Which I thought was higher than I wanted to see, since it was only made on March 20th...had queen issues and never had eggs til April 20th...I cut out some drones, about 50 total a week ago and it also had 10 or so - higher ratio than the other. One had 2 mites in the cell... The population was mainly the original hive until this last hatching...definitely keeping watch and eliminating drones as I do see clusters, to see if we can get the count down. Another reason for getting a Wayne's package, to add some diversity and hopefully some extra varroa resistance to our beeyard, down the road.
    Any other thoughts or suggestions? Do I do a sugar shake or let the numbers increase and shake after the nectar flow, which is still kicking here...
     
  18. Omie

    Omie New Member

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    You might try putting a fully dedicated drone frame into each hive or each brood box. They then tend to concentrate most of their drone brood on that one frame, which makes it easy to scrape routinely when you are in the hive. I used specific wax drone foundation in a few frames and it works pretty well- I never see worker brood on that frame. If i position it on the outside of the brood nest rather than all the way to the sides, the queen uses it for laying drone brood all Spring rather than the bees just filling it with nectar. Mites really flock to the drone brood, so it serves well as a mite trap.
     
  19. HisPalette

    HisPalette New Member

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    Thanks Omie. Last year with the MN Hygienics I never saw mites. They wintered over well with great numbers, then a very early swarm and supercedure, I think the colony lost the hygienic trait, and have started to see mites... It was expected to happen, or so I read that the trait doesn't carry over, or the mites have simply adapted. I have no experience to what is a lot or a little mite count or what is acceptable a level. I only know if the count is going up I need all the natural options available! Thanks again!
     
  20. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    the mite count number 'should' increase along with the explosion in brood and the live bee population in the spring time. randy oliver is always writing about this kind of thing so you might wish to read a bit of his stufff.... I think the link should be something like 'scientific bee keeping'.

    hygienic behavior is a multi allele trait so any expression of this requires some concentration of similar type bees and as you seem to understand can become watered down enough when the queen changes that this characteristic is then lost <actually masked may be a better word here than lost.