Queen cells in split after requeening.

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by Crofter, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    Found queen cells with larvae 4 days after requeening. Figured queen had been rejected so was watching the progress of the cells. I think on day six the capped cells were torn down and now on day 8 I see lots of new eggs. I guess they must have accepted the queens but started queen cells as insurance. I was worried about acceptance because the queens were released in less than 24 hours in those two hives. Should I have uncaged the queens and made sure a lot of the sugar tube contents had not been eaten out from inside the cage. The outside certainly was full. Was surprised to see them released so early.

    The other two hives did not build cells and the one replacement laying queen showed me eggs in three days. The other hive has a laying unmarked queen that I failed to find when I split. I guess that replacement queen lost the duel. That unmarked queen would be the one created from my added frames of brood earlier. It sure seems to take a long while to see eggs after them making a new queen especially if you hit some bad weather for breeding or cold hive temperatures keeps them in the blocks.
     
  2. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Glad they are all laying, but how would you know a queen was released in 24 hours. I don't know anyone who disturbs a new queen being introduced in less than 3 days. I would think you are taking quite a gamble by disturbing them in 24 hours after introduction.
     

  3. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    Just had to take the cover off and peer straight down in the candy tube. I guess even that is an added risk though. What is the consensus on whether the attendants should or should not be removed from the queen cages? There was no internal cover on the candy tube and I suspect quite a bit of the release candy got removed from the inside.
     
  4. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    The jury is out on removing the attendants. I have never remover them and have never had a failure. I wouldn't argue with anyone who wanted to remove them, tho. It may help in certain instances.
     
  5. pistolpete

    pistolpete New Member

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    I was told it's best to put tape over the candy plug for about two days, then remove it and let the bees chew through it. Not sure if it really helps, but it's supposed to be a safer slow release.
     
  6. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    "What is the consensus on whether the attendants should or should not be removed from the queen cages? There was no internal cover on the candy tube and I suspect quite a bit of the release candy got removed from the inside."

    frank, did you have a jz bz cage? about removing the attendants; like iddee i have never removed them from any cage and have had great success. i have also introduced/placed queens in a section of hardware cloth on the comb by herself to start laying with no problems.....(these queens were primarily queens being bred by my russian bee mentor).

    pistolpete~
    "I was told it's best to put tape over the candy plug for about two days, then remove it and let the bees chew through it. Not sure if it really helps, but it's supposed to be a safer slow release."

    there have been times and circumstances when i have left the cork or cap on for 24 hours or more before removing it to expose the candy, and then checking on the queen release 3 or 4 days after, yes, it does work.
     
  7. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    Yes JZ BZ California mini queen cage. You cannot handily open it without prying out a staple and restapling. It would not be easy to see if the candy is full to the inside end. The candy tubes were pushed in flush with the outside of the wood so not easy to remove, refill or check. I think the tape over the end would be a good insurance but then there is the risk of disturbance to remove it. (Iddee may tick you off, lol!) Next time I use those cages I will at least force some more candy in till I start to see it move into the inside end of the tube.

    I think I am lucky to have gotten apparently only one loss out of 4 (that hive had a queen so that really was a given) I also should have left them longer queenless.
     
  8. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    well it is quite common for me to release queens directly after 24 hours. on many occasions I suspect even that amount of time would be unnecessary < I suspect failure or success here largely depends on the composition or demographics of the worker bees you place into the split. there is so little candy in the jz cages that I have seen queens released in just a bit over 24 hours with these. some folks will melt a bit of wax and dip the end of the candy 'snout' to prevent the workers from chewing thru the candy and/or to keep the candy from melting and running out prior to using <it essentially acts as a plug that has to be removed when you set the cage into the split.
     
  9. ablanton

    ablanton New Member

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    Found the same thing in one of my splits today -- about half a dozen capped queen cells and the new queen appearing fine. This split is only a week old. I wasn't sure what to do. I pulled the queen out and left the cells in the nuc. Was planning to do another split with the queen tomorrow. Was this a good or bad move on my part?
     
  10. Marbees

    Marbees Member

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    Nothing wrong with your move, especially doing another split. I had that happened in my hives too. I used newly capped cells to start nucs, queen was accepted very well.
     
  11. ApisBees

    ApisBees Active Member

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    When we use to get extra queens with the packages of bees with no candy in the cage the queens for the packages were directly released after 15 minutes of the bees being hived. And the extra queens used for the splits were directly released after 24 hrs. Always had good acceptance. I have always removed the attendants It's a personal thing. I find it easy to grab the queen shake the bees out of the cage and stuff her back in.
     
  12. ApisBees

    ApisBees Active Member

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    I would suggest that if you can not find the queen when making splits make the splits and make up a nuc that you only have to check the 2 or 3 frames to make sure the queen is not present. check each frame a couple of times and release the queen into the queenless nuc. In 4 days when you check that the queen is released and laying in the nuc, one of the splits will not have any eggs and will most likely have queen cells started. Then move the frames with the queen into the queenless split.
    If there are queen cells started and I liked the stock I would move them into the nuc box as insurance against any queens being rejected or superseded. You would have a replacement sooner to add to a hive.
     
  13. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    Thanks; I sure wish I had thought of this procedure when doing my splits. It would have been so easy and saved me a $40 queen!