queen says "see ya!"

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by afterburn001, Apr 21, 2013.

  1. afterburn001

    afterburn001 New Member

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    I just want to double check something here...

    We got three new packages yesterday, two for us and one for a friend and hived them. They came from California and all three queens had been with their sisters for three days.

    When it came to hiving the the first package (my friends package), I did what I have always done. Pull the feeder can, retrieved the queen cage, pulled a frame out to make space for the new bees and then pulled the cork so the bees can eat the candy and release their new queen... Well when I pulled the cork there was no candy and the queen took flight before I could re cork it. Not much else I can do except dump the bees in the hive and close the lid.

    Since the queen has been with her sisters for three days, I am reasonable certain that she will simply join all the rest and start doing her job. There's no chance that she just flew off is there? :???:
     
  2. Ray

    Ray Member

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    Your guess is as good as mine.
    M. Bush's website claims that the queen will TRY to return and under your circumstances, at the time, you should have remained at the hive as a landmark. If the hives are close together she may return to the wrong hive, which is probably fatal.
    I would contact whoever you got the packages from, they may have extra queens.
     

  3. afterburn001

    afterburn001 New Member

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    We were out there for a good ten minutes talking. This is a new yard and that was the only hive we put there so no danger of her going to another one.
     
  4. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    She might have made it back to the hive. It's funny but they will land on you some times.
     
  5. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

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    Something similar happened to me once when a newly emerged virgin flew away from her hive. :eek:
    I left the hive open and after some 5-10 minutes she reappeared and dove into the hive betwen the frames. Then I closed it up. Happy end. :grin:
     
  6. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    if she returns you are likely to notice nothing unusual. if she did not then typically the bees in that particular package will fairly quickly (within 24 hours) drift to the adjoining package. <at this point if you do think she is still there you need to leave alone at least long enough for some brood to be deposited before you disturb them very much.

    as you seem to suggest the queen in the introduction cage should be a recognizable member of the swarm by the time it gets in your hands.... I suspect most people could quick release the queen if you did not shake the bees from the package. the queen in the cage and slow release help in positioning the potential hive at the center of the box.
     
  7. afterburn001

    afterburn001 New Member

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    There are no other hives in the area as this hive was for a friend and his first. I plan on going over and looking next weekend to find her. I doubt I'll find eggs by that time, maybe so, but if there is no sign of here I will give him another queen. I have a feeling she is there tough. There is nowhere else for her to go.
     
  8. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    to add to what g3 said, she might have, and sometimes they do land on you. had a queen fly up on my shoulder last season. when i went to snatch her off, she took flight again, only to land and scramble across the ground a short distance and me behind her, running as fast as her legs could scramble. managed to grab her again, and set her on the landing board. if your queen couldn't figure out how to get back into the hive, look for a pile of bees on or near the hive, or hive entrance. hope for you, she made it back okay.
    as ray suggested, i would also contact the supplier and just give them the scenario. no queen candy. may have been too little or none at all....hard to say. was this a benton cage or jz bz cage? i usually do a slow release with either cuz i keep russkies, set the queen in with cork in place...pull the cork/cap after 24 hours. even if you don't do this, i always make it a habit, when removing the cork or cap to pop my finger over in the event of some malfunction, (check the candy), before the queen decides to take a tour outside of the hive before i can set the cage in or back in place.

    good luck keep us posted.
     
  9. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Good luck and hope to read good news soon
     
  10. afterburn001

    afterburn001 New Member

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    It was one of the wooden cages and it had no candy at all. I know some suppliers ship with no candy, just the cork and you are supposed to add candy if you wish. I have always had them with the candy in them so I did not double check. If she did not get back in she's gone by now. Our weather is not that warm yet.
     
  11. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    sorry afterburn, seems, i have heard some suppliers are not shipping with queen candy, not sure why. like gypsi said, hope to read good news from you, she may have found her way back. keep us posted and let us know.
     
  12. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    it is called short changing the customer or some supplier does not want to go to the trouble in properly making up queen cage candy (which is much more difficult that it might at first appear). if they don't supply the candy??? I would wonder if there is or is not fumidil in the syrup... generally there 'should be' a bit of fumidil also added to the queen cage candy. failure to do either or both really increases the odds of supersecedure <hard to put a number to this but at least some very old studies suggested that if the supplier answer yea or nay to the fumidil question queen supersecedure can go from zero to 100%.

    hopefully the queen fell from the introduction cage into the box with the package. what you seem to have overlooked is the queen in the package does not necessarily know where the hive is if she simply flew from the package... which is to suggest that if she did fly that she may be unable to locate her own hive.
     
  13. afterburn001

    afterburn001 New Member

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    ***Update***

    OK, So my friend who has this hive went down to our local bee store where we picked up the packages and told them that the queen had taken flight. They said that there was no way that she was coming back and gave him a new queen. I wish that had not said that... Well, I was over there today and he wanted me to help him release the new queen. He put the new queen cage on a end frame (Not supposed to do that but oh well) and she was still in there with no bees attending her. He asked if we should just release her and I said "not yet, I have a hunch" Yep, we did a quick inspection and the original queen was with the daughters as happy as can be.

    I took the replacement queen with me and told him I would try to save her (she has been caged for about ten days now). I need to do a split anyway.

    Do you think she will be fine for another three or four days while a new hive gets used to her or should I just squish? I gave her som water and she is sitting in my kitchen cabinet
     
  14. Slowmodem

    Slowmodem New Member

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    I googled queen cage candy and found a recipe. Perhaps if you could make some and stick it in the cage, and give her a drop of water occasionally she'll be ok. Syrup might work, too. I'm just speculating here, but hoping for the best. :)
     
  15. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    Is there candy and attendants in with the queen? Must be or she would be dead after 10 days? Jack
     
  16. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    afterburn, like jack asked, is there candy and attendants with that queen?
    if there is not, if it were me, put her in, wait overnight, pull the cork. i wouldn't wait another 3 or 4 days.

    greg, with attendants and candy, normally you would give a dab of water, twice daily, no syrup on the cage. if the candy runs out/low you can use a marshmallow. i have kept queens with attendants and candy to about 7 or 8 days.
     
  17. afterburn001

    afterburn001 New Member

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    The Queen's in these packages came with no candy and no attendants so some of the bees must have been feeding her. I'll do a split in the morning and give her a chance. Logic says just pinch her as I don't need her, But I'm a softy.
     
  18. ApisBees

    ApisBees Active Member

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    The wooden queen cages come in 2 and 3 holes. The 3 hole have candy in one hole and attendants are placed in the cage with the queen to care and feed her. The 2 hole are used to hold queens in queen banks, bulk shipping boxes and to place in packages where the bees can access the queen and feed her thru the screen. Most package suppliers that raise their own queen for placement in the packages use the 2 hole queen cages because candy and attendants are not needed to be in the queen cage as the bees in the package will care for the queen. The queen will be in the package for a few days before being delivered and the package hived so the queen can be released while the package is installed. It is best to shake the bees in the colony, place the queen cage on top of the frames and let the bees re cluster near the queen for a few minutes and calm down after being shaken in the hive. them remove the cork and stand the queen cage on the top bar and let the queen walk down in between the frames. Once she has left the queen cage remove the cage and close up the hive and leave them alone for a few days.
     
  19. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    I would put her in a nuc with two or three frames of brood and a frame of honey and see how she does? You never know when your going to need a queen quick, and a nuc can raise brood to build up other hives. JMHO. Jack
     
  20. afterburn001

    afterburn001 New Member

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    Yes, I am going to do that today if it gets warm enough. I was worried when I first took her off his hands because I was out of empty frames (I only have a few frames of honey from last year) but UPS came after I got home and handed me some packages from Mann lakes! :thumbsup: Now I have 100 frames to assemble.