Question - Installing foundation in deep frames

Discussion in 'Beekeeping 101' started by ggmom, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. ggmom

    ggmom New Member

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    Newbie questions:

    We are installing crimped wire foundation in our deep frames. Our plan was to install support wires as well, but we are wondering if this is necessary. When using the spur embedder, should the wire be embedded all the way to the frame edges?

    Thanks for your help!
    [attachment=0:mr0t2vjo]bh2.JPG[/attachment:mr0t2vjo]
     

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  2. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    I use a spur embedder also, most times I just push on the foundation a little and it will sink into the wax. I do like wires on deep frames because if you pull one out before the bees can anchor it all the way around or they chew the bottom off of it the cross wires will hold it in place when you tilt it sideways looking at the comb. I have had the comb start to fallout of the frame with bees, brood and honey on it, trust me on this one!! :oops:
     

  3. Bitty Bee

    Bitty Bee New Member

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    Hi ggmom, We always put support wire in deeps because the weight of the wax can cause the comb to fall out once the bees draw it out and fill it with either brood or honey. As g3 said, the bees don't always leave things arranged the you put them either. Some others may do things differently and I have had deep frames that had no support wire and they are still fine but we lean towards the "ounce of prevention" side of things. Fortunately I've never had comb fall out of the frame, yet! It is good to get the wires embedded as close to the edges as you can. I know how frustrating the spur embedders can be though, so don't worry about getting them all perfect. We just kinda' push 'em a little like G3, and they usually sink in nicely.

    Welcome to the forum and we wish y'all the best for your bees!
     
  4. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    I agree that they need to be cross wired, but I have found that 2 in the 2 center set of holes is sufficient. I quit using the top and bottom sets of holes years ago. If the embedder leaves spaces unattached, whether on the end or along the wire, it can easily be pinched together with your fingers.

    PS. I use a 1by4 under the wire for support when embedding.
     
  5. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    I see a lot of commercial folks that use two wires horizontal plus crimped wire and it is difficult to formulate and argument as to why that is not sufficient.

    I did get into a curious conversation yesterday with my current employer about how one 'mr powers' (at one time the largest bee keeping operation in the us) obtained a labor pool of mentally challenged individuals and had them wire frames vertically. he claimed frames wired in this fashion were almost indestructable (sp?).
     
  6. rast

    rast New Member

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    I also horizontally wire even though most of mine are not deeps.
    I use a 3 amp battery charger to heat the wire into the foundation. Takes me about 4 seconds to heat, lay the leads aside and run my hands over the foundation to ensure penetration. However, I seem to be "spur imbedder challenged".

    Sorry, off subject but, the best boat washing crew I ever had for the store was from a local mental hospital program. Hated to see the program end.
     
  7. milapostol

    milapostol New Member

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    Does anyone have an opinion on those foundation pins versus the wire embedded in the wax? I am wax embedding challenged too!
     
  8. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    I like the wires much better, yes it is time consuming but in the long run is a much better option IMHO. The pins will still let the foundation slip out when it is warm and soft.
     
  9. rast

    rast New Member

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    Tried pins one time, still have most of them. See G3's post plus at the slightest dearth they chew around them.
     
  10. crackerbee

    crackerbee New Member

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    Aren't the one piece plastic frames & foundation coated in beeswax a lot less time consuming?It seems that all the time and toil put into crimped wire foundation isn't really worth all the fuss verses a one piece frame coated with wax,that only cost a couple of bucks.I sure being new at this I'm missing a point of sorts,if the plastic frames don't work as well.

    Just a newbee thinking out loud.
     
  11. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    The bees don't like plastic and often will ignore it or draw it in spots.
     
  12. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    Crackerbee writes:
    Aren't the one piece plastic frames & foundation coated in beeswax a lot less time consuming?

    tecumseh:
    by and large I am an old school wood frame, wire and plain foundation kind of beekeeper. I never have much cared even for rippled wire foundation which most folks will never come to appreciate (NOT) until they recycle these and face the discomfort of being stuck and stabbed endless time by the ripple wire.

    this year I have decide to try plastic foundation but I concluded long before I ordered the stuff that the wax coating on the stuff you got from the suppliers was way too thin, so I purchased uncoated plastic foundation and coated this myself. thankfully one person on this board gave me some excellent advice as to how to get this done in a timely manner.
     
  13. crackerbee

    crackerbee New Member

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    tecumseh:
    by and large I am an old school wood frame, wire and plain foundation kind of beekeeper. I never have much cared even for rippled wire foundation which most folks will never come to appreciate (NOT) until they recycle these and face the discomfort of being stuck and stabbed endless time by the ripple wire.

    this year I have decide to try plastic foundation but I concluded long before I ordered the stuff that the wax coating on the stuff you got from the suppliers was way too thin, so I purchased uncoated plastic foundation and coated this myself. thankfully one person on this board gave me some excellent advice as to how to get this done in a timely manner.[/quote]

    I could use that excellent advice tec.
    Maybe pm me with it so I won't be hi-jacking ggmom's thread,by straying off topic :mrgreen:
     
  14. rast

    rast New Member

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  15. Bens-Bees

    Bens-Bees New Member

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    I often hear that, yet that's not been my experience with it, and I use unwaxed plastic.
     
  16. ggmom

    ggmom New Member

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    Thanks so much for all the helpful information!!

    We're almost done preparing our hives and looking forward to getting our bees. :D
     
  17. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    We are wishing you the best, mom. Keep us posted with regular updates.
     
  18. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    My experience with vertical wired wax foundation in deep frames;
    the vertical wires in the foundation have a curve tension that tends to put a wow in the foundation once warmed up. The support pins only hold the edges and the center still is free to warp. I wound up pulling them out and cross wiring in 1st and third hole from the bottom. Lesson is that wiring is heck of a lot easier without the foundation already in, Lol!

    I looked at the spur embedders and thought it would be a problem embedding all the way out to the frames. I made an electric embedder wand with copper contacts about 1/8 in from frames and light spring fingers (from aluminum flashing spaced about an inch and a half apart that press evenly and lightly across the whole frame. A contact switch on the bar allows me to open the circuit and hold pressure on while the wire cools into the wax. This switch also prevents arcing at the two contact points. It works slick and holds the foundation dead straight so the bees dont get started with a screwy pattern to expand upon (hopefully)

    Edit to experiment with adding pics.
     

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  19. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    I use the two center holes in the endbars and have the transformer and embedder from Walter T. Kelley. It works great and beats all other ways I have found.

    PS. Welcome to the forum.
     
  20. Zulu

    Zulu Member

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    I did not cross wire my first 10 frames, and I proudly gave 5 of those to my mentor to replace 5 frames he left me in a nuc...

    Guess who called me when he needed to use them.... took him half hour to fix my mess.

    All my frames are now cross wired.

    I am an EE, and have a constant amp power supply , set at 16 volts , feeds constant 2amp and heats wires easily in about 30 secs. Tried 3amp but was too quick for me.