right way to requeen? Kill the old queen first?

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by Gypsi, Aug 26, 2013.

  1. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    OK, I have 2 queens due to arrive tomorrow or wednesday, probably tomorrow.

    Do I go in and kill the old queen today? Or in the case of my larger hive, do a split and be sure I send the old queen off to the new hive? Intended to ask this weekend but I had the toddler grandchildren and not a moment to spare.

    Gypsi

    (these are the Beeweaver queens btw, should be a bit tougher than those little California Italians.)
     
  2. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    I kill the old and install the new at the same time. Install with candy to be chewed through, of course. Not direct release.
     

  3. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Sounds good Iddee. Nervous enough about it, then we have the post office vagaries and temps nearly 100 degrees. Thank you.
     
  4. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Do go in within 6 days and check for release. I failed to do that and checked one today that had been installed 10 days ago. She had not been released and I had 5 queen cells ready to emerge. Don't let that happen to you.
     
  5. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Well Iddee, My 2 remaining full hives have queens who are doing a good job. I took photos which I will upload later, plenty of brood, some about to hatch out, some 1 to 3 day old, didn't actually see any eggs. The 2 deep hive queen is the stronger of the 2, but the one in the single deep is only a year old queen and she isn't doing badly. Some fool put a robber screen on without warning the foragers which resulted in a lot of bees UNDER the screen of the sbb (no sticky board, so easily airborne).

    My nuc needs a queen.

    and then there is my neighbor's hive, which started from one of my queens who swarmed off at the end of August last year. She mated with some hot drones, and they have refilled the deep and nearly filled a medium super starting from empty frames. They are ok as long as you don't mess with them, I am however sporting 4 stings because I didn't duct tape my gloves to sleeves before messing with them. I think splitting them, giving one half a new queen, would be the thing to do. Couldn't locate the queen before they ran me out, so I stuck a queen excluder in between for tonight. queens due in tomorrow or wednesday. I've taken my benadryl Tecumseh, any tips on the split? Should I move the half with the new queen (with all openings taped shut?)
     
  6. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    At 100 degrees in a beesuit, gloves duct taped to my sleeves, kneehigh boots over the full length suit, I went through both boxes, dividing them into halves as I did it. And I couldn't find the queen. So since I had 2 feisty queens with attendants I evenly split the bees and resources, taking a bit more of the brood away, giving each half 5 deep frames and 5 medium frames with either brood, nectar or honey (the deep/medium hive was packed solid) and I presume I got more nurse bees on my half. Then I used my neighbor's little wagon and loaded up a deep with 5 and a medium with 5 (knocked weight down to 75 lbs) with solid bottoms under and screened lids on top. I left a queen with attendants in the medium super on top of his hive. I put a honey medium and a brood medium that would need attention near the queen, the workers were trying to attack the cage as soon as it went in. I did NOT remove the plug. I did give them some a couple of drops of water before sticking them in my pocket.

    I put a queen excluder under the deep on the hive I took away, and I THINK the queen is in it. Didn't want her taking off. She is an outstanding queen, roughly a year old, very gluey defensive productive bees, just a little hot. But her next daughter is liable to be too hot to handle, so she's over here where I can keep a closer eye. I did put the other new queen in the top box in her safety cage with a couple of frames of honey, and I left a queen excluder between top and bottom boxes. Guessing I should check tomorrow and see whether to remove the cork plug from either? If the hot queen is still across the street I will have to catch her. I am just hoping she is here. Either way both hives have half the bees and half the evil temperament they had 2 days ago.

    Suggestions on finding her highness?
     
  7. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    If you had looked at the queen cages 10 minutes after installing them, you may have found the old queen trying to get at the new one.
     
  8. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    so an hour later would also work? That is a "can do".
     
  9. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Don't know, but I would sure try. Even the next day.
     
  10. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    next day, I can go out there tomorrow morning. My back and my body temperature had both had it. I left the new queen corks in, they have attendants and did get a drop of water after their express mail shipment. Seem to be in good health.
     
  11. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Well now Iddee, I did indeed suit up and go out there. First I visited my neighbor's hive across the street, where I sure hoped the queen wasn't, since I had not one queen excluder on the hive anywhere. and The bees were making friendly to the queen in her cage, (and not nearly as hot as previously) so I took her plug out to allow the bees to release through candy. I did not conduct a queen search, certainly none was near this queen. I gave them a couple of jars of food.

    Then I went to the other half of that hive, now in my apiary, which had a queen excluder on bottom, another between boxes, and the new queen on top. The bees in the top box were friendly to the queen, but in the bottom they were not. So I took the middle queen excluder out, and the new queen out, fed them and reassembled. I left the bottom excluder in. She is a good laying queen I don't want her to abscond.

    Then I opened the queenless nuc next door, which amazingly enough has NOT gone laying worker, despite the fact they didn't make a queen out of the eggs I gave them 3 weeks ago, and gave them the new queen. They had 3 frames of stored syrup/honey, and are good industrious bees, plentiful enough to build her more cells and raise brood.

    Now for more noodle soup and a nap. The joys of summer.
     
  12. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    I'll be waiting for the next chapter.
     
  13. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I think everyone has a queen. Certainly all of the bees are much less aggressive now than in the last couple of days. The hive I split needed split. Queen cups were empty, no swarm cells, but they were out of room and short of adding empty supers on top, it was split time. I think I need to check all of them in 3 days or so, to be sure queens got released? And I need to check for queen cells in the one I didn't give a new queen to. I'm pretty sure she is in there. bee-attitude being what it was. Thank you for answering my posts.

    Gypsi
     
  14. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I guessed right. My split that I thought had the old queen, has uncapped brood about 2 days old, I did the split last Wednesday. The new queens candy is almost chewed through in their nuc, and my neighbor's hive. Both queens are still alive. still 100 degrees here.
     
  15. Capt44

    Capt44 New Member

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    Requeening

    I usually remove or kill the old queen and 24 hours or so later the bees will realize they are queenless.
    That is when I install either a new queen or install a queen cell.
     
  16. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Although many beeks wait a day, the bees know they are queenless within an hour or two, so I install the new queen the same time I remove the old one. I do wait 2 or 3 hours before installing a queen cell.
     
  17. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Went through all my hives today - my neighbor's can wait til tomorrow, I will feed them now but am too hot to open them, and his bees are hot anyway, til the new queen takes over.

    My now hive 1 is alive, well, one deep, saw uncapped brood, and they have ONE empty frame... but without a flow I'm not adding real estate yet. Bees a little hot, one queen cell but it's empty

    My former hive 5, now hive 4, double deep yellow, old hygenic queen, has just about too much real estate, must have been 50 shb in the clear oil trap I have between the boxes on the shade tree side. But they have 1 partial empty frame down below, a couple of full ones up above, so it's feed and tough it through. Plenty of brood. They booted some drone brood in the last day or so, ran out of syrup friday evening and I just now got them more.

    Now hive 3, used to be neighbor's hot bees, his old queen and her brood, is not quite as hot as it was, but I did see uncapped brood.

    Hive 2 is a nuc that got one of the new queens, she was released and I saw eggs, did not see her. if she ever takes off getting back in will be rough, between the robber guard and the screen draped over the front of the whole thing. They were under constant seige before I split my neighbors hive and are still an attractive target.

    Taking the neighbor's bees some syrup and staying in ac afterward... whooooo frost warnings some places but it is 100 here today, in deep dearth. If I didn't feed I would not have bees.