split hive did I lose my queen?

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by Michbeeman63, May 2, 2012.

  1. Michbeeman63

    Michbeeman63 New Member

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    I did a split of a hive boiling over with bees. Bought a new queen, and took 5frames from the parent hive. The bees were so aggressive, I could not verify I didn't take the original queen with my split. Got stung 10 times thru my suit.

    The new queen is in a cage, with a marshmelliw in th hole. My mentor suggested going back to the nuc this evening to inspect for a queen, other than the one in the cage.

    Should I tape the new queen hole to prevent her release for a few days?

    If I find her should I put her back in the original hive?

    What signs will show I,still have a queen in the original hive?
    I understand that a worker can start to lay eggs, which would be drones.

    Any help is appreciated.
     
  2. tommyt

    tommyt New Member

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    I would till I had things figured out

    NO

    You sould see eggsIf you see Qcells your queen has left the room

    Tommyt
     

  3. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    You will have to find out which part the queen is in, either by verifying visually or in a couple of days looking for eggs like tommyt suggests. You will not develop laying workers in such a short time period. The only problem with waiting too long is the queenless part will try to raise an emergency queen after a very short period and perhaps will be reluctant to accept your new queen.
     
  4. Michbeeman63

    Michbeeman63 New Member

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    Why shouldn't I replace the queen if I find her, and the nuc queen hasn't released.

    Not too anxios to fo back into the original hive after the abuse I took.
     
  5. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    If she has been out 24 hours, they are making queen cells and will kill her.
     
  6. blueblood

    blueblood New Member

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    Dang, 10 stings through the suit! I bet that those feel awesome...
     
  7. barry42001

    barry42001 New Member

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    If the bees are that miserable, why would you want to maintain that queen anyway??? Better Idea get another queen, and find and destroy her, in 2 monthes all the nasties should be cycled out and a totally different demeanor will be apparent. Just a thought.
    Barry
     
  8. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    a snip..
    I understand that a worker can start to lay eggs, which would be drones.

    tecumseh:
    called laying workers. this requires about 10 days with no queen in the box to begin displaying itself. the worker in your sentence should be plural.... not trying to be the language police here, but the longer a hive goes without having a queen or an acceptable replacement the number of workers that become laying workers grows the longer the queenless state continues.
     
  9. Michbeeman63

    Michbeeman63 New Member

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    Update, went back to the nuc at around 7. Queen still in cage, added some more marshmellow to keep her in a bit longer. Hopefully this would prevent them killing her. Inspected all 5 frames for a queen and didn't see one. Not to say I couldn't have missed her.
    Guess all I can do is wait a week or so to see if the empty frames have comb and eggs being layed.

    Any suggestions?
    How would you move the nuc to a folk ten frame hive. Every other frame?

    Thanks for the help.

    Mike
     
  10. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    You can check for eggs 4 days after the split. Only one will have eggs at that time.

    No, 3 frames together, then one empty on each side, then the other two, one on each side, then empties to the outside from there.
     
  11. Michbeeman63

    Michbeeman63 New Member

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    I went to check on the mother hive. I cannot even get in this hive with smoke without major divebombers. again, stung through gloves, would have a hard time seeing any eggs unless they are on the new frames that would be combed out. Any recommendation on some good gloves that bees can't sting through.

    I will check again to see if there are any eggs in the nuc tomorrow. That would be day 5 since the split. Is this still a good check at day 5.

    the new queen was gone from her cage in the nuc, which I am told is somewhat a good sign since they would have killed her or not left her leave the cage if the original queen was in the nuc. Any thoughts.
     
  12. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Day 5,6,7 or anytime after is fine.
     
  13. Michbeeman63

    Michbeeman63 New Member

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    looked and didn't see any small eggs. just larvae and pupa and some fresh uncapped honey and pollen. Don't know anything else I can do other than wait and watch. I should have marked my new queen to verify the new one is the queen. Maybe next time.
     
  14. dr.buzz

    dr.buzz New Member

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    Actually, it's not lack of queen pheromone that causes workers' ovaries to develop, but lack of brood recognition pheromone. You have until about three weeks after the last of the (capped) brood has emerged before you risk having a laying worker's ovaries develop. So you have plenty of time to figure stuff out.
     
  15. Dakine

    Dakine New Member

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    Did you try shooting them with sugar water?
     
  16. Michbeeman63

    Michbeeman63 New Member

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    I never thought of sugar water. kind of like a riot firehose I guess. would you use a garden sprayer to spray the water since I don't think a spray bottle would be enough? thanks for the idea
     
  17. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    i wouldn't use anything that had chemicals in it. i use a pump sprayer similar to garden sprayers or deck cleaners. it's smaller, pump it up, adjust the nozzle, hit the trigger and shoey, that thing works well. i would still use the smoker though, smoke the entrance(s), lift the top cover, puff smoke through the hole of the inner cover, pry it up, send another puff or more across the tops of the frames, set it back down, wait a few seconds, then open it back up, and spray with the sugar water.....if you still have bees flying in the air at you, step back and fill the air with smoke, til they back off.

    btw the only gloves made stingless would be a pair of welder's gloves......good luck with those:lol:
     
  18. heinleinfan

    heinleinfan New Member

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    As for aggressiveness: take this with a grain a salt, I'm no expert, but I think sometimes hives are just "in a mood" for no reason we mere mortals can understand. And I think if you open them when they're in that mood, no matter what you do right or wrong, the ladies will be upset. I generally just stop an inspection when I notice this mood, and come back to them the next day. If I do go ahead and go on with it, if it's a time-sensitive inspection, I double up my layers of long sleeves, put rubber dish-washing gloves on under my cloth ones, and work as quickly as I can. They are always quite angry with me for a few days after I do this, though.

    I'd just give the aggressive hive a few days to settle down, but maybe spend a few minutes each day going near it, perhaps speaking to them or touching the outside of the hive, so they keep in mind that you (and your smell) are still around.

    As others have said, you have *lots* of time before you will have a laying worker if the queen was lost. LOTS of time. And, from my experience with a laying worker hive, you'll notice a decline in forager population before you reach that point. My understanding (and seems confirmed here by others) is that pretty much all of a queen's brood has to be gone before a laying worker goes "dude, wait, I got this!" So, if you watch your hives daily and kind of know their level of activity, you can see that activity declining, and then maybe worry about your queen and go in inspecting for brood.


    As for sugar water, that's what I've started using in my inspections. The idea, for me, is not to use the water like a riot hose, heh, but to keep them occupied with sugar water and damp wings rather than me. I'll smoke just a tiny bit at the entrance and under the lid when I begin an inspection, then I just regularly spritz the hive and the frames for the rest of the time. My smoker is nearby, and going, so I'm sure the scent is in there air and I have it if I need it, but the sugar water alone seems to keep them grooming one another and sucking the sugar off of things rather than flying about being upset.


    I got a little spray bottle at the beauty section of a drugstore, I believe it was marketed for dampening hair, I like it because it produces a fine mist that has a wide pattern, so just two squirts will mist an entire frame. I fill it with 1:1 sugar water.

    I will also mist carefully towards the center, rather than edges, of the boxes when I'm getting ready to put things back together; it tends to draw the ladies away from the edges so I don't have to worry about squishing them.