Squared boxes

Discussion in 'Building plans, blueprints, and finished projects' started by crazy8days, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. crazy8days

    crazy8days New Member

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    I've been building deeps all winter. Getting them square is not a problem but after glue is dry and I can move them around I find they don't sit flat. They wobble. Not much of a wobble but enough to drive me crazy. (Short drive). Been taking a hand planer and getting them better but am I missing a step? All boards are cut square and all equal lengths. Joints a flush.
     
  2. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    What I do when that happens is right after gluing and screwing, I stack em and put a heavy weight on them so that they are flat when the glue dries. Be careful not to shave off too much trying to get them to sit flat, you don't want to affect bee space.
    Even if they wobble a bit it won't matter when they are full of honey and such, they will "settle in".
     

  3. Papakeith

    Papakeith New Member

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    i've been stacking the boxes and putting weight on top to kind of force them to sit flat.
     
  4. ApisBees

    ApisBees Active Member

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    Dado of finger joint? Not that it should matter. could be caused by unsquare cut, a variation in the depth of the dado that causes the attaching piece to not sit square or the boards used have a bit of a twist to then. Supers that wobble lay them on a flat surface and if any side wobbles that is where the problem lies. Once the bees fill the supers with honey the weight will hold them down.
     
  5. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    Check what ApisBees suggests. If they are cut square and no tapers, but still dont sit flat, then one or more of the panels has a wind or twist to it. I have set them up with the two teeter corners space up about twice the rocking factor then weight them down to twist the opposite and let them sit so for a few days. Once in use they will come around. Something I learned on wing building flying airplane models!
     
  6. BoilerJim

    BoilerJim New Member

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    I've had the same problem. Used to drive me nuts but I have found the bees don't really mind.
     
  7. blueblood

    blueblood New Member

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    It will work out once you have heavy frames/foundations in them and have another box and/or inner cover and lid on it.
     
  8. The Bee Guy

    The Bee Guy New Member

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    What I've found is the square cut on the ends and make sure the tablesaw fence is square with the blade.
    I measure with a tape measure from the fence to one of the guide tracks in the table, they never move.
    measure each end of the fence to the track, they should be the same.
    If not the rip won't be square with the ends and cause the finished product to wobble or have a high spot on one end.
    I took a 2ft square piece of 3/4 inch plywood and nailed and glued Four 2x2's using a framing square.
    When I put a box together whether rabbit joints or box joints that box is square.
    by the rip being square that does away with most of the wobble.
     
  9. junkhound

    junkhound New Member

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    I am building all of my wooden ware (except frames) out of eastern red cedar that I cut on my mill. I run all the edges through the table saw to give a uniform width and a very smooth edge. When a box rocks I place a 1/4 " shim from corner to corner (the touching corners) while the glue is still wet and stand on the opposites. This usually racks it flat. When the Tite Bond glue is dried there is no loss of strength.
    junkhound
     
  10. BhaktiBee

    BhaktiBee New Member

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    Is your stock planed before cutting? That will alleviate some of the problems with lateral warping (wobbling)
    ​I would suggest using a solid ruler when setting measurements on your saw (a tape measure will move a bit on the hook end)
     
  11. ApisBees

    ApisBees Active Member

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    They are designed that way to allow for the thickness to the hook end. The movement in the end should be equal to the thickness of the end. This will allow accurate measurements weather the tape is hooked on the end of a board or pushed up against an object.
    Test your tapes every once in a while. Hook the tape on the end of a board put a mark at ? inched then push the end of the board up against a object, next place the tape end against it and check against the line. you should get the same measurement.
     
  12. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    If you are doing rebated joints the most active face of the rebate is often sawn with the board vertical against the fence. Any small twist to your fence will make a rocking box when assembled even if the lumber is free of twist. Let set with weight on and the low corners shimmed. They will come around to your way of thinking!
     
  13. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    crazy, been on those short drives with equipment, even with the manufactured deeps and mediums. like all the guys said, perry's answer the first reply, the answer to avoiding a short or a very long drive and a hand planer is to place heavy weight on them as soon as you assemble, and sometimes like perry said, they don't sit flat anyway, but after having weight on them after giving to the bees, they do sit flat.......ok, well for the most part.....:lol:
    i wouldn't hand plane them, i would leave them alone, and take the advice of the rest of the guys. personally, i don't think it matters what type of joint you have, and sometimes, realistically, most of the wood has not been dried properly, especially with pine, and even if it is, there are lots of other issues that cause warping and twisting, etc. sometimes you get lucky when building your own equipment, or assembling manufactured, and don't have to go for the short or longer drive, and i am guessing some non-disney language.......
    you must be an anal retentive type of guy???!!!!......:lol:

    anyways, one thing to remember......WE ARE NOT BUILDING HEIRLOOM CHINA CABINETS.................:lol:...........:rotfl:
     
  14. BhaktiBee

    BhaktiBee New Member

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    ....WE ARE NOT BUILDING HEIRLOOM CHINA CABINETS.................:lol:...........:rotfl:

    Hear! Hear! :bow:
     
  15. bamabww

    bamabww New Member

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    I'm probably the only one who doesn't use a finger joint or another special joint on their boxes. I just cut my ends square, allowing for the lap of course, and glue and screw or nail them together. I do set them on top of each other with a weight to try and help them cure "level" but honestly have very little problem with this method.

    I have some in the field now for their 3rd season and all are still tight and secure.
     
  16. Capt44

    Capt44 New Member

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    I build a lot of bee hives from the bottom up to the telescoping top.
    When I have a customer look at the boxes they want them to match, sitting flat.
    Most I'd say 90% of them want box joints over the rabbet joints.
    To me a rabbet joint is just as solid as a box joint but folks want them.
    The way I'm setup I can cut either the box joint or rabbet joint just as fast.
    In 10 minutes I can cut box joints in enough boards to do 4 boxes.
    Rabbet joints are fairly simple, set the fence and cut using a dado blade setup at 3/4 inch.
    But that joint whether rabbet or box joints have to be setup with the thickness of the board.
    Lumber depending where it was milled is either 3/4 or 13/16 inch thick.:eek:
    That little difference can make a big difference how a box acts when put together.:cry:
    I use a digital caliper to check the board thickness and setup my saw blades and jigs accordingly.
    For squaring them up I can use a jig I built from 3/4 plywood and 2x2's or I also have removable corner clamps but the initial cost of the clamps are high.
    Make sure the ends are square with the ripped board.
    The boxes will sit flat.
    Oh yes one more thing, knots.
    If the board is not properly dried a knot can cause a board that is cut to size to curl or twist at the knot as the board dries.