Supercedure

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by barry42001, Jun 23, 2012.

  1. barry42001

    barry42001 New Member

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    Out of the 3 colonies I started with, only one has it's original queen, The primary queens were superceded in all cases except for one that was killed and replaced. The replacement queen is not being replaced by a supercedure. I can't think of a reason for replacing a young, strong laying queen laying solid patterns of brood? Any ideas:confused:????????
    Barry
     
  2. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    Bees will be bees. I have seen the same thing on occasion, supercedure for no apparent reason (to us). Sometimes they just stop the process on their own, or they have recognized something that we have not. You could always wait till it's capped and make up a nuc with the existing queen rather than lose her.
     

  3. Barbarian

    Barbarian New Member

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    Supercedure does seem to crop up in a lot of US posts.

    Is it that frequent ? Any thoughts on why ?

    .:confused:
     
  4. ablanton

    ablanton New Member

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    The package that I installed March 31 replaced their queen a couple of weeks ago. She was doing a marvelous job, so I have no idea why they didn't like her. Checked the new queen's progress today and she seems to be doing a pretty good job, also.
     
  5. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    a Barbarian snip..
    Is it that frequent ? Any thoughts on why ?

    tecumseh:
    some folks do seem to think it is fairly frequent. I don't see much of this myself but have come to my own conclusion as to the causes.

    there is of course the link created long ago between nosema and superscedure (blind test done back in the 80's by the State of Nebraska). at the current time I suspect a lot of superscedure here is about new bee keeper manipulation that either was unnecessary, unwarranted or simply a bad idea from the get go. I also suspect (speculating for certain) that when it comes to newbees 'a bad idea' when it does succeed get well reported but the total failures tend to be unreported or quickly forgotten.
     
  6. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    When I used to do early splits here, the only two sources for queens were Hawaii and Australia (and at one time New Zealand). I usually had good success with Hawaiians and not so good with Australians (roughly 50% supercedure in the first month). My thoughts were that it may be due to the different seasons, we were getting queens that were starting to slow down there (Australia) and we were expecting them to ramp up here.
    I wonder if it's not just some sort of cyclical thing, like a bad swarming year.
     
  7. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    very interesting observation Perry.

    there is also the undeniable connection between queen poorly mated.
     
  8. barry42001

    barry42001 New Member

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    I have also read elsewhere on this site, that it seems that queen not of the colony's genetic make up, i.e. raised in another colony, placed in yet another nuc, then caged and now installed in yet another colony of bees, the bees need a mother, but will raise thier own as the opportunity presents itself, as when the colony gets populated enough to afford a couple of weeks break in brood rearing. Any thought on that???
    Barry
     
  9. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    I am not certain exactly what you question is barry???

    amongst the biology and genetics folks there is this theory that somehow worker bees can discern genetic similarities and they have a preference for genotypes that looks more like them.... I myself think this sounds a bit like anthropomorphic nonsense.
     
  10. Beeboy

    Beeboy New Member

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    I don't understand this either. I had a queen laying all drones. They didn't do anything about her. I had another queen that was just doing exactly what they are supposed to do, yet they got rid of her...the bees are the boss I guess.
     
  11. barry42001

    barry42001 New Member

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    Tec, what you stated was exactly what I was referencing, how nonsensical remaims to be further researched. Were that the case, ( "amongst the biology and genetics folks there is this theory that somehow worker bees can discern genetic similarities and they have a preference for genotypes that looks more like them "), might explain alot of whats happening regarding supercedure issues. Might sound fanciful, but doesn't make it wrong--more suprising discoveries have been made, many more still to come. Swarming was called and to my knowledge, called a impulse, we now know that bees start preparing to swarm well before the egg is laid in the first queen cup.
    Barry
     
  12. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    I think our thinking barry is pretty much one and the same here????

    although I think the idea that bees can discern genetic relationship is a bit fanciful I do know full well that this 'could' happen via some string of events (functions) that is somewhat to very complex and therefore very difficult for any person to fully understand. for example the bees do have an amazing smelling apparatus so us humans (whos primary input is sight) will have some difficulty understanding the full nature of what a bee knows simply via smell.

    the often reported difficulty in requeening stock like the russians or the africanized bees also suggest some genetic relationship can be recognized by at least some bees.

    the upside is.... that even after a large number of years what there is to learn in regards to 'the girls' is still enormous (and growing by the day).