swarms traps, entrance location

Discussion in 'Swarms, Cut outs, and Trap outs' started by hiveatyourhome, Apr 6, 2012.

  1. hiveatyourhome

    hiveatyourhome New Member

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    Does anyone have an opinion on whether the entrance to a swarm trap is more beneficially located the front/side versus underneath a swarm trap? These traps will be located mounted mostly trees about 12' up.

    Going to put out 40-50 swarm traps this spring, going to be building next week. Would be easier for me due to what I'm using to have them enter from under instead of in front. Do the bees find the holes visually and check out entrance?

    Does it matter if the trap is lured and they will be coming for the scent and will probably look/smell around for the entrance?

    My assumption is the visual matters little and I can put the entrance wherever I want and building wise its easier for me and what I'm using under, but not much of a difference and want to know if someone has some insight saying I'm wrong on that. If so more successful traps is what I'm after.


    K
    HiveAtYourHome.wordpress.com
     
  2. Marbees

    Marbees Member

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    Visual doesn't matter much, and it's not clear to me what kind of trap you are building. The most versatile design is a 5 frame nuc box, something you can use to trap swarms, do splits, rear queens etc. 7/8" hole in the front is a good size opening.
    Lured traps are more efficient , some keepers use frames with old comb, some add store bought lures that simulate queen pheromon, some apply lemon grass essential oil inside the trap (few drops)
    Once the swarm is in, insert one frame of brood in the middle of the box, to ensure they are not leaving.
    As for the height of the trap, I wouldn't go any higher than 10 feet (easy to take down)
    One swarm I caught last year moved in the trap on my picnic table.
    Welcome to the BF, hope you like it here.
     

  3. hiveatyourhome

    hiveatyourhome New Member

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    Swarm Trap Hive type

    Thanks,

    Although I am using Langstroths (10 F Deeps), and a couple hTBHs, the majority of hives I made are vertical box framed hives like Langstroths/Warre, the boxes are Warre dimensions. Since that is what I make and don't have go get, I'm making more boxes to use as traps. Since it is what I use in hives, easy to just take and start a hive. (That's the theory.)

    Each of my "Weeks Style" boxes (basically Warre boxes but people either jump on me for using Warre, or if Warre advocate point out its not exactly Warre, so I'll take the credit/blame - Weeks Style) is ~1/2 the volume of a 10 frame deep Langstroth box. (OK confession what I plan on using for traps are from 8" board I have not 10" I make the actual hive boxes from so slightly lesser volume)

    My memory recalls a recent Bee Culture articles and Honey Bee Democracy seem to point out 40 Liters / 1.4 cubic feet as optimal volume. So I was planning on using two boxes.

    10 F deep = ~1.4 cubic feet
    5 F deep nuc = ~0.7 cubic feet
    Two 8" Weeks Boxes = 1.28 cubic feet
    One 8" Weeks Boxes = 0.64 cubic feet

    So you recommend a nuc size due to easy handling?
    You feel the increased volume to match Seeley's (HB Democracy) volume recommendation is not needed? (He states and shows study concluding 40 liters is superior to 15 liters.)

    I know others us a nuc box versus a full deep and are successful though.

    K
     
  4. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    What are weeks boxes? never heard of them.
     
  5. hiveatyourhome

    hiveatyourhome New Member

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    If you weren't kidding, "Weeks" being my name and as I said in the previous e-mail not going to blame Warre for my creations. I've had people assume I'm not inspecting, hence not adhering to state regs., or City Etiquette if I say Warre and on the other end Warre users point out its not a true Warre hive and suggest its just my hive, so I've ended up with the credit/blame. The swarm boxes are basically the same except I also had some 8" board versus 10" board.


    If still interested in my $10 hives:
    OK, with a portable saw mill and 60 acres of woods I have rough cut board laying around from an abandoned project.
    I stole this concept from Anarchy Apiaries when I saw his, its great because you just make four boards one length and screw them together to form a square, only one cut length.

    What I also love about it is that even if you "mess up" there is a wide range that everything will work out, almost anyone could do all of this bye eyeballing the lengths and where to put top bars and it would still work based on the suggested lengths and spacing below. These frames are inspectable (cut box with wire, check to see if there are sidewall connections from below, cut sidewall connection, lift topbar and look at comb, put it back in same space,) but not meant to be interchangeable (Warre wouldn't want you moving comb around.) (Most state regs reference inspectable comb, some reference frames, legal interpretation of every state with that is that a top bar is a frame, you don't need side or bottom bars to meet definition. In normal lingo we say frame when talking fully wooden around versus top bars but that means nothing to legal interpretation so don't get confused these are frames and they are inspectable.)

    First what it could be then what I did:
    For the basic box what it could be:
    thickness between 1"-board to 2" board (this will change your outer dimension but not the inner, boxes are smaller so extra weight not a problem)
    inner dimension 10.25" - 12.25" can work with bee space, Warre is 11.75" Do you have small cell bees?
    board width, wider is better 8"-12"
    length of 4 square sides will be inner dimmension + 2*board thickness (12.25"-16.25")
    I cut all the boards the same length and screw them together in a spiral so each side is one board end and one board length.
    board length: So cut four boards to be inner dimension + 1 board thickness (11.25"-14.25")

    OK so what I did:

    I wanted 11.75" inner dim., it matches Warre and randomly the needlessly complex frame spacing I use.
    Outside dimension 14.75" sq 10" high (10" is close to Warre's metric and I had it)

    Cut 1.5" by 10" boards to 10 13.25" lengths
    and screw boards in a spiral to form a square like this:

    ------------------- |
    |..........top bar......|
    |..........top bar......|
    |..........top bar......|
    |..........top bar......|
    |..........top bar......|
    |..........top bar......|
    |..........top bar......|
    |..........top bar......|
    |_________________

    Then taking scrap pieces (unused edges from langstroth frames is the size, much thinner and less wide than a kenyan hTBH or a hoffman selfspacing frame in your langstroth, thinner is better as its bees will keep the comb going from one frame to the other, you cut the boxes with a wire and less sidewall attachments then you would think and as 11.75 inner dim doesn't need much of a frame top bar.) snipped top bars to inner dimension.

    staple two against opposite sides to make frame rest (set in thickness of top bar and one bee space)

    Then you could either eyeball wedging the top bars across (if you leave a tad bit long or wax down) or have something with the spacing on them. using metric warre wasn't thinking 1.5" but its close even division is ~1.5 between top bar mid points and .75" to side. I on the other hand think the brood in the center frames does better with 1.25" spacing and outside frames will get honey (I know its all honey when it gets moved up,) so I give them 1.5" spacing for the outer two top bars. the space from the out top bar to the side would be 15/16" (half of the 1.5" spacing = .75 plus half a bee space = 3/16) but I round that to 1". So I mark a board with where the top bars should go. From interios side board:
    interior side, 1" bar midpoint, 1.5" bar midpoint, 1.5" bar midpoint, 1.25" bar midpoint, 1.25" bar midpoint, 1.25" bar midpoint, 1.5" bar midpoint, 1.5" bar midpoint, 1" interior side
    if you want identical spacing work it out yourself or heck like I said eyeball it till the eight bars look evenly spaced.

    For inspectability I use topbar frames every box. To start package use two boxes. Have 6 made min. (one for feeder/insulator)

    For bottom had scrap plywood, cut 14.75" square then put down 3/8" high strips on back and sides and I throw in 1/4" hardware cloth as permanent mouse guard with sharp ends up to scratch skunk paws.

    Instead of fancy gabled roof with vents and complicated quilt I cut open cell ridged sound insulation board (~ $1 absorbes water and bees can suck it out, and breaths) to the dimension of top of box. cut hole in center to put pail feeder above for packages (don't plan to feed sugar after year 1 ever, leave honey but packages aren't as good as a similar size swarm and swarms only get 25% overwinter in wild so first year feed.) I bought epoxy coated paint cans ($5) and made my own feeder by creating small holes in lid center but a 1 gallon plastic pail should fit.

    For top bought 16" tile ($1.50) Buy whatever is >15" for whatever color.

    So take bottom, put 2 boxes on it, add insulation board, add another box, put feeder pail in this box, ratchet strap down to cinder blocks or pallet, put tile on top.
     
  6. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    OH it's a warre hive......:lol: just kidding, just kidding!!

    Sounds like you are making hives out of what you have and that is good. The bees don't really care as long as they have space, and are out of the weather.

    Thanks for the in depth explanation, sounds like some I bought many years ago.