Things don't look good

Discussion in 'Beekeeping 101' started by Medic1259, May 26, 2012.

  1. Medic1259

    Medic1259 New Member

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    OK I don’t think this is good. I just did Hive inspection and this is what I Found..
    SHB total saw was 3 (Yes I killed them) 1 in the hive top feeder, and 1 each on frame 9 & 10.
    P5260084.jpg

    Frames 1, 2, outside 3, outside 8 ,9 & 10 still empty nothing at all on the frames (except SHB).
    Frame 4 ,5,6,&7 orginal nuc 3/4 covered with bees
    P5260074.jpg


    P5260075.jpg


    P5260076.jpg
    Inside frame 3 75% drawn out, nectar, pollen, capped, uncapped drone/worker and queen cups /queen cells.
    P5260067.jpg P5260068.jpg P5260069.jpg P5260070.jpg P5260071.jpg

    Inside frame 8 25% drawn with just nectar
    P5260085.jpg

    Still no queen did see queen cups , closed queen cells and where there were queen cups last were and now taken down.

    More on next post..
     
  2. Medic1259

    Medic1259 New Member

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    So I dont know what to do.. Do I order a queen or wait? I did add SHB trap.

    And now for the big question ... look at this...

    P5260082.jpg P5260078.jpg P5260080.jpg
    It was only one bee with the wings like that. What could that be?

    I did find some Capped honey too .. About 20 Whole cells in a 10 frame deep

    P5260077.jpg

    So my Questions...
    What should I do about a queen?
    Am I losing this hive?
    Whats up with the wing on that bee?
    Should there be more then 1 frame drawn out in over 3 weeks with 1:1 being fed?

    HELP!!!!!!!
     

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  3. JUDELT

    JUDELT New Member

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    great pics! in 6 it looked like someone was backing out of the qcell
     
  4. Medic1259

    Medic1259 New Member

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    Queens come out backwards??
     
  5. JUDELT

    JUDELT New Member

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    sorry, i'm too new to give you any answers.
     
  6. G3farms

    G3farms New Member

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    No queens come out head first, more like a worker feeding a queen larva.

    The funny looking wings are "deformed wing virus" and is carried by the varoa mite.

    Hive looks a little weak to me. Can't remember, was this a package or a nuc you started?
     
  7. barry42001

    barry42001 New Member

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    The one head first in the cell is the drone with deformed wings, newly hatched and could be varroa, or simply deformed by being raised in worker cell ( laying workers ). No eggs?, just older larvae? You must either combine with another colony or give them a frame of eggs to raise their own queen, or immediately order another queen AND provide a frame of eggs, or you will have laying workers in short order--is queen pheromone that prevents worker ovaries from developing. Look for drone brood in worker sized cells, several eggs in same cell and not all the way down on the bottom of cell. SHB while annoying at this point, I would be too worried yet, just keep a watch for population levels. If you have laying workers that's still yet another issue,and they will never accept a queen not raised by themselves as they believe they already have a queen. lol one problem at a time.
    Barry
     
  8. Medic1259

    Medic1259 New Member

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    It was a 4 frame nuc. Queen was laying more drones then workers . Killed her and no they were trying to raise a new queen. I will order a queen on tuesday . I m screwed..
     
  9. heinleinfan

    heinleinfan New Member

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    The hive looks weak, yes, but you're not necessarily screwed just yet. It's gonna be a rough summer for you and the ladies, but you, and they, can recover from this! Get them built up and strong for winter and next spring, you'll be having an entirely new experience with them.

    Brood pheromone is actually what keeps a laying worker from developing ovaries enough to lay. So all brood has to be nearly gone completely before that pheromone stops being strong enough, so you have a little time still.

    These are my thoughts, just my own from experience and readings but I'm not expert; take what you need and leave the rest:

    -I prefer to let hives requeen themselves and don't usually buy them, but I think were I in your shoes I would want to buy a queen, and I would NOT get a queen from your original seller.

    -With that many queen cells, and one capped, there is going to be a queen in there, soon. Before installing your new queen, make sure there's not a young queen in there already. She'll be smaller than usual by a lot, and darker than usual, because she'll likely be a virgin still AND will have come from an emergency cell. But make sure you are able to find her and pinch her, and then make sure you destroy any and every queen cell you find, whether it's capped or not. Destroy the queen cells even if you don't spot a queen.

    -That's a little risky, sometimes you want to leave a queen cell in case your new queen doesn't work out, but I just don't think I'd trust any queen out of your hive at this point and we don't want you having a queen fight and risk losing the newly purchased queen. And remember a newly installed cage queen has to stay in her cage for 3-4 days before being released into the bees or they'll kill her.

    -In your shoes I would also destroy some of that empty drone comb. I tend to see my queens keep laying drones in drone comb if they have it available, especially when they're young. Drone comb is also the preferred breeding ground of varroa because of it's larger size. You'd want to keep as much drawn worker comb as you can, but I'd take a knife and just slice along the drone comb tops, and then slice down into it in a cross hatch pattern all the way to the foundation, breaking the walls of it, so the ladies go in to repair it and hopefully take it back to worker cell size. Don't remove it completely, just mess it all up a bit. I'd do this for any of the drone comb that was badly interspersed with worker comb and any frame that showed a lot of drone comb, and also any warped comb not straight on the frames. Leave any bits of wax in the hive, they recycle!

    Also, that bad wing, it could be varroa, and you've got SHB.



    Honestly, I would be very displeased with this seller were I in your shoes. In my opinion, a nuc should be a stronger, smoother start than a package. It's like sowing seeds vs. planting transplants in a garden. With seeds (a package) you gotta work pretty hard to get them all germinated and healthy and nurse them up large; with a transplant (nuc) it's like POOF, instant garden.
    A nuc should be from a healthy hive free of pests and disease, have a laying queen, with good pattern, who grew up with those bees, and enough brood of all stages, workers and food stores to get them nice and settled in.

    I went back and looked at your very first pictures, and there's already drone comb sharing space in a bad way with worker comb; if that queen came with those bees then she was already laying bad brood pattern. If your queen didn't come with them, but came from that stock, eh, still not so good and frames with drone comb could have encouraged her to produce more drones. Even in your first pictures there's sunken brood caps, and by your third pictures there's way more than I would ever want to see in my hive, and usually that's something wrong with the brood. Since you've spotted the bee with the messed up wings, I'd be thinking too much varroa and you know you have SHB.

    I honestly in your shoes would not want anything but money back from this person, not new bees or a queen or anything, and I'd not only not work with her again, but I'd report her to the inspector.

    She may say you messed with them too much and all this, and that it's your fault, and I don't believe it is. You might have waited a little bit longer to pinch, and see if your queen shook herself out of her drone laying, or scratched some drone comb to discourage it, but still, this was not, in my opinion, a strong and healthy nuc. At a minimum, she sold you a nuc already containing SHB, and she should not be spreading that stuff around.
     
  10. Medic1259

    Medic1259 New Member

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    Another question about the Mites... Is that something that could just happen or is it somethng that would have been there when i got the nuc
     
  11. heinleinfan

    heinleinfan New Member

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    I think of mites like fleas on an outdoor dog; that dog is gonna have some fleas, but as long as it's not enough to make him sick it's not that much of a problem.

    So a hive is going to get them, no matter what. Unless a beeyard is using massive amounts of chemical mite treatment, I think they'd be hard pressed to have no mites ever, at least in my area.

    BUT, you only start seeing the wing damage when you've got a problem with varroa population, not just a few hanging around.
     
  12. Medic1259

    Medic1259 New Member

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    I have not seen any mites.. I only have 1 hive and everything has been new execpt for the 4 frames from the nuc.
     
  13. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    This is the reason you should always continue on the same thread about a particular hive. People can help much better if they know the whole story.

    I think you need to send the pics to sallie and tell her you want a replacement nuc, a queen, or your money back. You did not receive your money's worth when you purchased it.
     
  14. Medic1259

    Medic1259 New Member

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    I am sorry I am new to the forum thing..

    I sent her an email today and also CC to the NY state inspector. I Asked her for "Help" .. Figure see what she will offer. If not i figure I could dispute the charge with my credit card
     
  15. cheezer32

    cheezer32 New Member

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    The pattern deffinately looks spotty, the comb looks decently old so that may have been from past problems hives and your queen was just laying in the drone comb from past hive queenlessness or whatnot.

    If you don't get a queen in there soon your going to have more problems... The frames are already starting to get pretty honeybound, leaving no space for a new queen to lay, as well as being broodless and laying workers developing... Personally I would stop feeding at this point because there not going to be consuming alot of syrup/nectar without brood... and you need some of the space freed up anyways so that when you get a queen in there (whether it be the one they raised or a bought queen) she can get to laying up some frames and get that population back.
     
  16. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    a cheezer snip..
    The pattern deffinately looks spotty

    tecumseh:
    a nice phased understatement. the pictures needs to be saved to show any new bee keeper what a truely bad laying pattern looks like. even the queen cells on what I suspect must be the outmost frames (of the existing brood nest) even look puny.

    this hive need a new queen and one frame of brood added and fairly quickly.

    at some point you will need to locate the queen. when everything else fails brush or shake the bees thru an empty shell with a queen excluder attached to the bottom. I most often set this at the very front of the hive elevated by another empty box. the idea is the workers go down and thru the excluder and walk right back in the front door. the queen and drones are caught up in the excluder but without all those workers the queen is easier to locate. in this circumstance she often will try to hide in the corners of the box + excluder.

    you are going down a path most new beekeepers should not be required to take... but what you can learn along that path does have it's rewards.

    good luck..
     
  17. Medic1259

    Medic1259 New Member

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    So this was the responce from the seller :
    "Hi Mike, Not going to say anything. You are listen to two many people. What happen to the queen cell?
    I'll send you a queen. Cost is $20 w/ shipping.
    All the nucs were inspected before I sold them.
    When you get the queen see if one of your buddies will give a frame of brood.
    That is why we (NJ instructors) tell new bee keepers to start w/ two hives.
    Get back to me what you want to do.
    Sallie"
     
  18. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!:|
     
  19. melrose

    melrose New Member

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    The malformed wings are a sure sign of mites.
    As for the queen, maybe she was out mating or hasn't mated yet, reason for the empty cells....
    Better remedy quick. If you start seeing nothing but drone cells capped, possibly a laying worker/s.
     
  20. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Contact Bjornbee on this forum. If you have to pay for the queen, at least try to give the money to someone besides Sallie.

    Sallie must be a total genius if she can inspect a queen and tell how long she will lay before running out of sperm. In fact, she must be psychic.

    Please post her company details so everyone knows to buy from her with full knowledge of how she runs her business.