Thymol post revival

Discussion in 'Pests and Diseases' started by efmesch, Apr 15, 2013.

  1. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

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    Last year Clover queen bee initiated a thread "Apiguard and other thymol varroicides.." After a slow start the thread picked up but basically no one gave advice based on real experience on how to use thymol and how effective it was for controlling varroa.
    I'd like to make an attempt at gleaning information on any aspect of thymol treatment aginst varroa that the forum can supply:
    Where do you get it? (prepared?/self concocted?)
    What concentration do you use?
    How do you apply thymol?
    How often?
    Can it be used while the bees are storing honey for eventual extraction and sale?
    And, most importantly--Have you found it to be effective? And how did you assess its effectiveness.
    There are a lot of questions here and maybe you don't have answers for all of them. But, if we all get together, maybe, collectively, as a forum, we can get some real answers to the subject.
     
  2. Barbarian

    Barbarian New Member

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    I use Apiguard. Will post more when I've checked the strength.
     

  3. Lburou

    Lburou Member

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    Randy Oliver had articles about thymol used against Nosema here, and here, then as miticide here . I have used thymol to keep sugar syrup from growing fungus in the jars, but, for the life of me, I can't find the recipe from Oliver's site. I think thymol is available on ebay & amazon.

    HTH :)
     
  4. Barbarian

    Barbarian New Member

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    Apiguard

    The Apiguard I use comes in 50G packs of gel containing 12.5G of thymol. One pack is opened and placed on the top bars at the top of the hive. It is surrounded by a shallow rim and covered by a closed inner cover. The slide is closed on the SBB. The thymol fumes disperse in this space and are carried around inside the hive. Two weeks after the first pack is applied it is recommended that another pack is added. If the colony is small and quite a bit of the gel remains from the first pack, I stir up the remains and do not add the second pack. When the tray(s) are empty the treatment is finished and they should be removed.

    Apiguard is applied during a temperature window (15C to 40C) when there is not a honey flow on. I usually treat my hives in Spring.

    I started to use Apiguard after a wipeout from resistant varroa when using Apistan.

    I use Apiguard with other methods as part of an IPM regime. The regime seems to be working at the moment. I use SBBs but don't monitor mite drop so cannot give info as to mite drop during Apiguard treatment.
     
  5. Joe

    Joe New Member

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  6. Barbarian

    Barbarian New Member

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    Api-life Var Strips

    Each of these strips contains 8G of thymol plus smaller amounts of eucalyptus oil, camphor and menthol.

    Before use the brood is moved to the centre of the hive. Each week for 4 weeks, one strip (whole or in 2 or 3) is placed on the top bars in the corner(s) of the hive. At the end of the 4th week the strip is removed. One course per year.

    I have not used this product so cannot report on its effectiveness. The smell is very noticeable. You can smell a hive being treated from several yards away.

    I would be interested to hear from members who have used thymol frames, thymol floor inserts or thymol tea-bags.
     
  7. Barbarian

    Barbarian New Member

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    Thymovar Strips

    Strips each containing 15G of thymol.

    One strip (broken into 2 or 3) per hive for 3 weeks then removed and another applied for a further 3 weeks. Treatment is then complete.

    I have not tried so cannot comment.
     
  8. jb63

    jb63 New Member

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    I used thymol crystals in syrup as a preservative.I can't really say what effect they have on mites though.I did put some crystals under a screen bottom,maybe a table spoon.There was an increased mite fall,but I wouldn't call it a silver bullet.
     
  9. Omie

    Omie New Member

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    I don't use anything.
     
  10. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    Does anyone have a notion about physically how the thymol affects mite population? Is it physical damage to the mite itself or interference with scent navigation and suitable brood identification or reproduction by the mites.
     
  11. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    frank, thymol acts as a fumigant. it works by releasing vapors that are noxious to mites within the hive, and the amount of vapor released is dependent on the dose applied and temperatures. thymol is only effective against exposed varroa mites; those on adult bees, newly hatched bees, or mites on the combs before cells are capped. it is not effective on mites in capped brood, and won't be until the bee hatches with the mite on board. so for it to be effective, treatment with the thymol (vapor) should continue through at least one brood cycle. also treatment with thymol won't produce immediate results, there is typically a delay in the drop of a mite count.

    ps. scientifically? i just re-read some material i have; "Thymol acts in a very different way. As a protein denaturant it disrupts cell membranes and affects all cellular processes. "
     
  12. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    Thanks, I know it is very pungent stuff; was wondering if it had any effect on messing up their communications the way smoke does the bees. In your research did you come upon the mechanism of how Hopguard works?
     
  13. Slowmodem

    Slowmodem New Member

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    This is timely............

    Speaking of Thymol:

    CATCH THE BUZZ

    Busted!!

    By Alan Harman



    Two Canadian beekeepers have been fined $35,200 (US$33,900) by Health Canada for using unregistered pest control products in their beehives in an attempt to kill invading mites.

    The Edmonton Journal reports Russell Severson of Camrose and Miedema Honey Farm Inc. of Barrhead were fined after they used products on their hives in Alberta with the active ingredient amitraz.

    It is an insecticide that is approved for use in Canada , but only in registered products. It is found in flea and tick collars for dogs.

    Miedema was given two violations; one a C$4,000 (US$3,850) fine for the use of an unregistered product and the other for importing a product that contained thymol.

    Six notices of violation were handed out to Severson for a total fine of C$31,200 (US$30,050) for using an unregistered product.

    Folkert Miedema told the newspaper he used the product Taktic, which is sold in Australia , as a way to combat the mites.

    “It is used all over the United States and beekeepers in Canada use it too,†Miedema said.

    He said Taktic was much more effective than products approved for use in Canada .

    Alberta provincial apiculturist Medhat Nasr told the newspaper issues of non-compliance with federal law have to be taken seriously.

    “Some of these guys use word of mouth and don’t know how much of the product to apply and how to handle pesticides,†he said. “The danger is in three things – risk for the applicators themselves, risk for the honey, and risk for the bees.â€
     
  14. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    frank~
    "Thanks, I know it is very pungent stuff; was wondering if it had any effect on messing up their communications the way smoke does the bees. In your research did you come upon the mechanism of how Hopguard works?"

    well, pungent is an understatement, in the scientific definition of protein denaturant, in layperson language, i understood this to mean soft tissues, and it fumigates them to death. if you look at how thymol affects the bees when placed in a hive; driving them out, excessive bearding, potential queen loss, queen stops laying, (so no brood) and overall disruption of the colony, not to mention how the fumes affect honey/pollen stores and wax.....well, fumigation is a good description.

    it is interesting that none of the scientific information is included in any treatment to specifically address the question as to how treatments affect varroa. one has to do some digging for the information, and with a curious bean like mine, i do. :grin:

    about hopguard;
    in short, and this is from Dr. Gloria DeGrandi-Hoffman's research: (usda researcher, tucson, arizona):

    "One group of compounds that has not been examined for their effects on Varroa mites are beta acids from hop plants. These compounds reduce feeding and egg laying behaviors in certain plant feeding mites. "........and further after her testing found: "Beta acids from hop plants (Humulus lupulus L.) reduce feeding and oviposition behaviors and increase mortality in certain phytophagous mites."

    you can read the articles here with some great info on hopguard:

    [SIZE=-1]Title: The effects of beta acids from hops (Humulus lupulus L.)on mortality of Varroa destructor (Acari: Varroidae)
    [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=-1]Title: The effects of beta acids from hops (Humulus lupulus L.)on mortality of Varroa destructor (Acari: Varroidae) [/SIZE]

    The effects of beta acids from hops (Humulus lupulus) on mortality of Varroa destructor (Acari: Varroidae)

    also, randy oliver had an article regarding miticides, published in the ABJ several years ago. the article is on his website, and includes hopguard:

    miticides 2011 randy oliver

    ps, like omie, i don't treat my bees, and haven't for 6 or 7 years now. the last miticides i used were api life var and apiguard.
     
  15. Lburou

    Lburou Member

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    I ran into this article today, and this is how they ran the study:
    Interesting, but I wonder if there is a more recent study using thymol in some form..?

    P.S. This Link goes to an abstract and summary of an even older thymol study.
     
  16. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j..._2JiJWDhx1KSQnUUQ&sig2=Sf4C6unttKOyj668n6wPYg

    I have been playing with thymol crystals in a carrier paste of shortening and powdered sugar. It appears I wont need it on my hives this fall, but looking for a cheaper way than patent treatments when doing my son's hives. The thymol disolves readily in the heated shortening. It seems to have a liquifying effect and have not got the consistency just right yet. Was using an off brand instead of genuine Crisco though, so will try the real thing. I dont think there is much question about thymol killing mites but I dont know all the possible long term effects on the background microbiology of the hive. I think you have to be very careful about not getting the Listerine taste in your honey if you use it in the spring and then having bees move honey up from broods into honey supers. Fall treatments leaves lots of time for any odor to dissipate. Oxalic acid vaporization does not have this issue with a pungent long lasting taste effect.
     
  17. modenacart

    modenacart New Member

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    I used api var life and my bees appeared to get robbed the next day. Funny thing is I saw a lot of fighting bees but no bees leaving heavy. Removed after four days and started open feeding away from the hive and the fighting stopped. I did see a lot of mites on the bottom board when I removed it.
     
  18. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    I would have to look again at the list but if memory serves me correctly one of the product found in the largest concentration in honeybee hives from the National Honeybee Health Initiative is thymol.