[DP_Everett]

I will be starting my first year as a beekeeper and am trying to do lots of research. And I have a question. It seems common to hear the refrain “Don’t harvest honey your first year”. Sadly people don’t seem to qualify or expand on this, and it seems like an incomplete thought.

Is that statement predicated on the assumption that the colony will not be able to produce an excess amount of honey? I totally understand not taking any honey that the bees NEED. However, let’s just say that a first year colony does exceptionally well and fills double deep brood boxes, as well as two medium supers of honey. If people overwinter colonies in just double deeps or even a deep and a medium, why would you not be able to harvest any honey from those two mediums on a first year colony?

Initially I didn’t think it mattered, because you could just harvest excess honey in the spring, whatever the bees didn’t need, but if you are going to treat against varroa in the fall you wouldn’t be able to consume the honey from the supers because the were on the colony at the time of treatment.

Why do people say not to harvest honey the first year?

 

[Gypsi]

That depends on how much honey you get, and that depends on how many flowers are in your neighborhood. The more "flow" aka nectar from trees, flowers and other plants, the more honey is available to be made provided your hive has enough bees to harvest all of it, you have provided comb or fed enough syrup before flow for them to draw comb (comb uses a huge amount of nectar or syrup to make the wax), and they have the space to put up stores. If you harvest more than your bees can spare, they can starve during drought, dearth or winter

 

[Four Bee's Apiaries]

I'm in the San Francisco bay area of California. I have been able to pull off early caught swarms the first year. I think it really just depends on your location. In my area my urban bees are rarely faced with much of a dearth even in the heart of our mild winters. That said I'm still careful to make sure to leave a box of food stores on the hives and only harvest anything above that. Sometimes ill get a full box or two other times I wont.

 

[Earldw]

I will be starting my first year as a beekeeper and am trying to do lots of research. And I have a question. It seems common to hear the refrain “Don’t harvest honey your first year”. Sadly people don’t seem to qualify or expand on this, and it seems like an incomplete thought.

Is that statement predicated on the assumption that the colony will not be able to produce an excess amount of honey? I totally understand not taking any honey that the bees NEED. However, let’s just say that a first year colony does exceptionally well and fills double deep brood boxes, as well as two medium supers of honey. If people overwinter colonies in just double deeps or even a deep and a medium, why would you not be able to harvest any honey from those two mediums on a first year colony?

Initially I didn’t think it mattered, because you could just harvest excess honey in the spring, whatever the bees didn’t need, but if you are going to treat against varroa in the fall you wouldn’t be able to consume the honey from the supers because the were on the colony at the time of treatment.

Why do people say not to harvest honey the first year?

Did you ever come up with an answer? I am very, very new to beekeeping, but It seems to me that if two deeps is enough for an established colony it would be enough for a new colony.

I understand the desire to manage expectations about 1st year honey production, ie., one probably will not have any excess honey to harvest, but that isn’t the same as what if there is? If one has two deeps full of brood and honey, should one just leave any medium supers added on the hives over winter?

 

[Gypsi]

Did you ever come up with an answer? I am very, very new to beekeeping, but It seems to me that if two deeps is enough for an established colony it would be enough for a new colony.

I understand the desire to manage expectations about 1st year honey production, ie., one probably will not have any excess honey to harvest, but that isn’t the same as what if there is? If one has two deeps full of brood and honey, should one just leave any medium supers added on the hives over winter?

the difference between new and established is the new one has to build wax, for honey and for brood and it takes a LOT of syrup or nectar to build wax. Now if you start a new on comb instead of foundation, well that's different. Be sure to freeze the comb for a week or so to kill off SHB or wax moth eggs, and be sure it came from a very healthy hive.

 

[Earldw]

I must admit to missing something here.

I am starting a new colony in a couple of weeks with 3#’s of Italian bees. If by September, my new bee colony has filled up 2 deep supers with brood and honey and I put on a medium super, should I leave that medium super on the hive over the winter?

 

[Gypsi]

Beeweavers do a small winter cluster and require fewer stores than larger clustered bees, what kind are you buying, did you ask the seller what winter cluster size is like? I've seen bees starve. only about twice on my watch. In a warm winter with no flow they will consume a lot of honey because nothing is in bloom but they are not in cluster slowing their metabolic rate. I have never purchased pure italians, I buy bees with some mite defenses, VSH or hygenic queens. I haven't bought a nuc since 2012 and I have never bought a package.

 

[roadkillbobb]

look at it this way, better to leave too much than not enough, you can always harvest the honey in the spring if there is any left, once you go through a winter and see how much stores your bees need , then the next season you can figure out how much honey to take for you and leave for the bees, with a new hive and not knowing their winter food requirement I would be afraid of not leaving enough, but either way you should be making fondant and feeding the bees that along with winter honey stores...

 

[Earldw]

Sorry to be a pest about this, but 20 years of submarine service left me compelled to understand an order before I go out and execute😄.

If the bee’s, in the first year, fill two deeps and a medium box then leave it all on till next year?

 

[roadkillbobb]

the problem with bees, there are too many factors involved...probably down south by you, they will use far less honey in cold weather than subzero temps in the north..you need some blind faith here..lol..what works for me in my area may not work for you in yours...
ps, never a pest asking questions...Ive come to the conclusion there is no understanding what bees do..lol

 

[Earldw]

the problem with bees, there are too many factors involved...probably down south by you, they will use far less honey in cold weather than subzero temps in the north..you need some blind faith here..lol..what works for me in my area may not work for you in yours...
ps, never a pest asking questions...Ive come to the conclusion there is no understanding what bees do..lol

Honey collection is ver much a secondary benefit to raising bees for me so I am in no hurry to harvest (other than I have to gather enough for at least one mess of biscuits). But I have planted peaches, pears, mulberry, elderberry, blueberry, blackberry, muscadine, figs and of course a large vegetable garden. All-in-all, about 1/3 of my 3 acre lot is covered in fruiting plants. Peaches bloomed in December/January, blueberries are blooming now and blackberries bloom almost all year long. All of my neighbors are also heavily planted. One even offered to pitch in on the cost!

 

[roadkillbobb]

I planted a bunch of fruit trees and blue berry bushes, I already had a ton of apple trees and wild blackberry....my pastures have more than enough natural flowers for the bees, lots of golden rod and milk weed along with any other natural flowering plant..lol..not to mention all the nut trees, oak and beechnut...I ended up buying honey from a friend upstate that raises bees as one of his hobbies/ side money...I bought a few nucs to start the hive built up and then the mites took em out, then I bought another nuc treated for mites and they did a winter death flight, the hive was empty in spring..then I caught a few wild swarms and got a few from other beekeepers upstate..in the end they either didnt build enough numbers before winter and couldnt keep warm or they flew away...
last fall I saw 2 swarm traps very busy, so I figured I would let them winter in the traps and if they are still alive in spring, ill move them to a hive..like you honey was secondary...because in all honesty its a hell of a lot cheaper to just buy it from someone...I know the feeling of eating honey your bees made, one year I was able to harvest about 10 frames of honey, it was good....I dont want to figure out the cost per pound..lmao...

 

[Gypsi]

the problem with bees, there are too many factors involved...probably down south by you, they will use far less honey in cold weather than subzero temps in the north..you need some blind faith here..lol..what works for me in my area may not work for you in yours...
ps, never a pest asking questions...Ive come to the conclusion there is no understanding what bees do..lol

Actually Bob, if bees are active but no flow they use more honey.
@Earldw if you have 2 full deeps you can swipe the medium super

 

[Earldw]

I planted a bunch of fruit trees and blue berry bushes, I already had a ton of apple trees and wild blackberry....my pastures have more than enough natural flowers for the bees, lots of golden rod and milk weed along with any other natural flowering plant..lol..not to mention all the nut trees, oak and beechnut...I ended up buying honey from a friend upstate that raises bees as one of his hobbies/ side money...I bought a few nucs to start the hive built up and then the mites took em out, then I bought another nuc treated for mites and they did a winter death flight, the hive was empty in spring..then I caught a few wild swarms and got a few from other beekeepers upstate..in the end they either didnt build enough numbers before winter and couldnt keep warm or they flew away...
last fall I saw 2 swarm traps very busy, so I figured I would let them winter in the traps and if they are still alive in spring, ill move them to a hive..like you honey was secondary...because in all honesty its a hell of a lot cheaper to just buy it from someone...I know the feeling of eating honey your bees made, one year I was able to harvest about 10 frames of honey, it was good....I dont want to figure out the cost per pound..lmao...

I was just checking out your profile: so do you live on Long Island or Lon Guyland? Sorry, bad joke but I lived across the sound in Connecticut a couple of times in the 80’s and 90’s. In fact two of my children were born in Groton. Absolutely a beautiful part of the world without the added intrigue of alligators and such!
In that there are very few times I can go without my Flonase, my guess is there is a LOT of available pollen all year long. I can’t speak to its palatability to Italian honeybees though. We are kind of on the dividing line between all-green-all-year and dead-till-spring. My hypothesis is that the cold we do get allows the chill-hour plants and trees to go completely dormant with resulting spring flowering. It’s just that winter comes really late and spring comes really early. My bee’s get here March 20th and it is not uncommon to have 90° days by then, though usually cooler. I’m really thinking that if the colony fails, starving won’t be the issue. I’m sure that their are myriad ways for me to do that myself!

 

[Earldw]

Actually Bob, if bees are active but no flow they use more honey.
@Earldw if you have 2 full deeps you can swipe the medium super

Awesome answer Gypsi!

Seems to be my “check out the profile” night and I see you live in Ft Worth. I have family in Lake Worth and Garland. I grew up in Lubbock. I can actually remember when there was a sizable gap between Ft. Worth and Dallas.

 

[Gypsi]

Awesome answer Gypsi!

Seems to be my “check out the profile” night and I see you live in Ft Worth. I have family in Lake Worth and Garland. I grew up in Lubbock. I can actually remember when there was a sizable gap between Ft. Worth and Dallas.

The gap now is Hurst Euless Bedford Arlington and Grand Prairie

 

[roadkillbobb]

I was just checking out your profile: so do you live on Long Island or Lon Guyland? Sorry, bad joke but I lived across the sound in Connecticut a couple of times in the 80’s and 90’s. In fact two of my children were born in Groton. Absolutely a beautiful part of the world without the added intrigue of alligators and such!
In that there are very few times I can go without my Flonase, my guess is there is a LOT of available pollen all year long. I can’t speak to its palatability to Italian honeybees though. We are kind of on the dividing line between all-green-all-year and dead-till-spring. My hypothesis is that the cold we do get allows the chill-hour plants and trees to go completely dormant with resulting spring flowering. It’s just that winter comes really late and spring comes really early. My bee’s get here March 20th and it is not uncommon to have 90° days by then, though usually cooler. I’m really thinking that if the colony fails, starving won’t be the issue. I’m sure that their are myriad ways for me to do that myself!

LOL..a few friends upstate came from new jousey and bust my chops about my accent...so I give it right back to them..all in good fun...but both long island and upstate have long periods of time with no food for the bees naturally along with freezing temps...
main problem on the island are all the pesticides sprayed on everything from the landscapers...so the bees get poisoned from that and also there are studies that show the pesticides along with roundup are in the actual honey and of course the usda says its safe for humans to consume.....and then every other commercial on tv is for some mass lawsuit against some pesticide or herbicide company for chemicals that caused cancer in people...