Varroa and Hop Guard

Discussion in 'Pests and Diseases' started by jim314, Mar 13, 2012.

  1. jim314

    jim314 New Member

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    I posted pictures of the mites I discovered in my hives a couple of weeks ago. I took over a week to get my hop guard order from Mann Lake, so I wasn't able to put it in the hives until last Sunday afternoon, rained all day Saturday and Sunday morning. Here is a picture of the mite drop after 48 hours. This is from the hive where I found all the varroa in the drone larva.
    [​IMG]

    This is the second hive where I found very few mites on the drone larva. I didn't think I had a problem with this one, but it looks worse than the first one. The debris is the hop guard strips being chewed up.
    [​IMG]

    Just a close up:
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Marbees

    Marbees Member

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    Thanks for pics Jim, did you treat as recommended by manufacturer, or stronger dose?
     

  3. jim314

    jim314 New Member

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    Welcome Marbees. I treated as they suggested with two strips per 10 frames. I'll put another two strips/10 frames on next weekend, and another two the weekend after that. I'll post 48 hour mite drop pics after each treatment to see how it works.
     
  4. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

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    Very impressive! Nothing like a picture to prove your point.
     
  5. jim314

    jim314 New Member

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    Heavy rain prevented me from taking pictures after 48 hrs, so these are 72 hrs later. I think it looks a lot better.

    1st hive:
    [​IMG]

    2nd hive:
    [​IMG]

    Jim
     
  6. Marbees

    Marbees Member

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    Yes, much better:thumbsup:
     
  7. jim314

    jim314 New Member

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    3rd treatment and I'm through. I think I'm good until the Fall now.

    1st hive:
    [​IMG]

    2nd hive:
    [​IMG]

    Notice the small hive beetle in the last pic. He was stuck to the pan on his back, legs flailing. He was also dispatched right after the pic was taken :)

    Jim
     
  8. Zulu

    Zulu Member

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    Great post, thanks a lot

    as a hop farmer (experimental only) I have great interest in this product.
     
  9. jim314

    jim314 New Member

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    You're welcome Zulu. Do you know yet how you will extract the hop oil?
     
  10. Zulu

    Zulu Member

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    My research is with NC State, so have asked them if any ideas.... you can also buy Hop extracts in bulk, just not used by homebrewers like me.
     
  11. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

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    Jim snip:3rd treatment and I'm through. I think I'm good until the Fall now.
    Efmesch: If the hops doesn't affect the bees or the honey in any way, what would be wrong with leaving a strip near the inside of the entrance to the hive? If that is not realistic, I would suggest the timing of the next application to be after the honey extraction (it could be that you extract in the fall, here we extract in mid-summer and leave late honey for the winter supply). Whatever the case, keep your eyes alert for varroa at all times. They have a way of sneaking up on you and before you realize it, you've got a real bad case of varroasis.
     
  12. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    ""what would be wrong with leaving a strip near the inside of the entrance to the hive?""

    Perfect recipe for helping the mite to build resistance. Feed a small dose over a long period of time.
     
  13. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

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    I always was lead to believe (from "what people say") that natural substances don't suffer from that issue. (Things like BT and formic acid.):dontknow:
     
  14. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Think desensitization shots of bee venom for humans. All natural, and quite effective for building immunity.
     
  15. melrose

    melrose New Member

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    I don't see any pics
     
  16. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

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    There's a totaally different mechanism working here. Desensitization involves reducing the individual body's acquired exaggerated response to a foreign protein. Resistance of pests to a poisonous substance is a process of genetic selection and takes place over a series of genertions.
     
  17. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    Whether one generation, or many, it is receiving less than a lethal dose of a deadly substance and the body counteracting it until a lethal dose is no longer lethal. There may be a difference, but I don't see it.

    As for the acquired exaggerated response, Bill Haas of Florida took snake venom injections in graduated doses until a deadly viper bite did not bother him. I don't think that could be considered acquired exaggerated response.
     
  18. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

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    Iddee says: "Bill Haas of Florida took snake venom injections in graduated doses until a deadly viper bite did not bother him."

    Efmesch says: But Bill Haas' children would have to go through the same series of exposures in order to develop their immunity to viper venom. They wouldn't be born immune. So too, goes my reasoning with the varroa. Their next generation should also be put under by the hops.
    What I'm trying to say (apparently not too clearly or convincingly) is that, having been exposed to a sub lethal dose of hops (as the strip get used up) wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) leave the next generation of mites immune to a full dose.
    The mechanism of genetic immunity comes to play when due to some random genetic variation a mite happens to be immune to a substance, it succeeds to raise offspring, where all the others died out. But the offspring will have inherited the genetic factor that gave it immunity and little by little an immune population will, through selection, replace the susceptible ones that were killed off. Perhaps a sub lethal dose of hops will do the selection for genetic immunity.
    As in scientific questions, this one too will have to be answered, not by my suppositions but by experimentation.
     
  19. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    I agree that what you are saying is correct, but I do not believe it is complete. Using Bill Haas as an example, if he had done this before he had children, the antibodies he developed to fight off the venom may well be reproduced to a certain degree in his offspring. Thus if they took the same injections as he did, it would take fewer steps to get to his level of immunity. Their children, even less, until the immunity was totally passed from one generation to the next.
     
  20. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

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    Iddee, you're getting into the discredited theory of the inheritance of acquired traits. (One way it was disproved was by raising rats for 20 generations. As soon as the rats were born, their tails were removed. After breeding 20 generations of tail-removed rats, they didn't remove the tails from the 21st generation. They grew full length tails ---just like those of the founding generation. Ah, but if you were to select rats that naturally grew short tails and only raised brood from the short-tailed rats, after 20 generations you would have a variety of short tailed rats to exterminate. :club: