Wax foundations bowed in frames

Discussion in 'Beekeeping 101' started by clinch, Jan 15, 2012.

  1. clinch

    clinch New Member

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    Hello everyone! This is my first post on the forums and actually my first time here. I am a beginner beekeeper and I'm just assembling my first box and frames using wired (vertically) wax foundations.

    Anyway, I've assembled 2 frames so far, being extremely careful to check for squareness along the way. When I place the wax foundation within the assembled frame, it's slightly bowed because the foundation is slightly taller than the space in the frame. It's not extremely bowed, but it's noticeable.

    On the first frame, I actually trimmed off about 1/8" to make it fit, but I'm wondering if it's necessary to do it for all of them?

    Thank you!
     
  2. Marbees

    Marbees Member

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    Welcome to the Forums Clinch, you will see there are other canadian beekeepers around. :wave:
    I also trimmed my first 200 frames then switched to plastic Mann Lake frames, more convenient.
    It's not necessary to do that, it's just foundation, when you cross wire them and bees build comb those frames will be straight and strong for many years. Good luck :thumbsup:
     

  3. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    It sounds like you bought grooved bottom frames instead of split bottom. In the future, buy split bottom frames and you won't have that problem. For these frames, if you have a table saw, set the blade at about "6 to 8mm" 1/4 to 3/8 in. above the table and open the bottoms of the frames the width of the saw blade. Cross wiring them will help a lot.
     
  4. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    "Split bottom frames"?
    I ended up with what I think you are referring to a long time ago when I got my first nucs. I didn't think they still made those anymore. I figured that they were made to slide your foundation in from the bottom? They always seemed weaker there.

    Oh, and Welcome to the forum Clinch. :hi:
     
  5. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    May seem weaker, but they are all I use. I give away any grooved bottom frames I happen to come by.

    Of course, I only use Kelley wired foundation, and it is a tad longer than the others.
     
  6. barry42001

    barry42001 New Member

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    split bottom bars are whats to be used with wire foundation, grooved is only for plastic based foundation, this allows you to slide the foundation through the bottom bar, and then wire or pin to side rails and of course using the wedge along the top of foundation pinching the wires under the wedge.
    Barry
     
  7. clinch

    clinch New Member

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    Thanks everyone. I appreciate the help. Iddee, you are correct in that they are grooved bottom frames, not split. I will take a look and see if I can use my table saw to make the groove a bit deeper. That's a good idea and may actually be easier than trimming all the foundations by hand.

    Also... Marbees, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "cross-wiring". The kit doesn't have anything to attach the foundation horizontally. Is that what you mean?
     
  8. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    I lay the cross wired frame at an angle, with the wedge removed. I slip the foundation into the bottom bar and lay it into the wedge area. I then replace the wedge and embed the cross wires. I have never slid the whole foundation up through a bottom bar.

    There should be 2 to 4 holes in each end bar. They are for running wires through and securing the foundation by embedding them into the wax.
     
  9. Barbarian

    Barbarian New Member

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    Not in Langstroths but these comments might help.

    Bowed foundation may cause shallow cells which the bees cannot use. Dead areas on frame.
    I prefer to trim foundation rather than cut timber. "Yer pays yer money and makes yer choice"
    With 2 bottom bars, fix the one on the non-wedge side, slide in the foundation, fix second bottom bar then wedge.
    Don't insert the foundation until ready to give to bees ---- they prefer 'fresh' foundation.


    No eyelets and horizontal wiring for me. Inverted VW wired foundation and grooved side bars. Gloat -- Gloat

    http://www.thorne.co.uk/pdf/frameassembly.pdf
     
  10. Marbees

    Marbees Member

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    Check this way of wiring frames, you may find others, but that's basically how it's done.
    http://www.easternmobeekeepers.com/cont ... roswir.pdf

    Some beekeepers in our climate - Ontario, skip this step completely, if frames are to be used for brood only, but I wouldn't do that.
     
  11. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    an iddee snip...
    It sounds like you bought grooved bottom frames instead of split bottom.

    tecumseh:
    I don't disagree with Iddee much, unless of course it is political in nature, but this is an exception to the rule: I would suggest that split bottom boards (and yes I use to use these exclusively) are also a place for the shb to call home.
     
  12. Flyman

    Flyman New Member

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    I had the same problem when Dadant switched to 1/2 inch groove bottoms instead of 3/8s. The old foundation would not exactly fit the new groove. You didn't say the mfgr of the frames but this is an issue from back about 1 and 1/2 years ago. I can see some mismatched stuff still being outhere and sold.
     
  13. clinch

    clinch New Member

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    I'm not actually sure who the manufacturer is. My wife gave me the hive kit for Christmas. She picked them up from a local supplier: http://www.betterbees.com/ (I don't think they list the manufacturer though).

    I'm thinking of going in later this week to ask in person. Thanks all for your help!
     
  14. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    You're not disagreeing with me, Tec. I never said they were best. Only that they are better for kelley wired foundation. I keep my hives in full sun, and in NC that is sufficient to keep the SHB at bay. Not eliminated, but under control.
     
  15. clinch

    clinch New Member

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    Sorry for the newbie question, but what is SHB?
     
  16. gunsmith

    gunsmith New Member

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    Small Hive Beetle.

    Don't be sorry, ask away. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.
     
  17. Marbees

    Marbees Member

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    SHB are not considered to be a big problem in Ontario. To learn more about it and other beekeeping issues go to http://www.ontariobee.com/
    You will also find a list of queen breeders/nuc producers, in case you didn't order your bees yet.
     
  18. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    betterbee is a supplier in New York state. of course the wood wares could be manufactured just about anywhere since many supplier now purchase wood wares rather than build the stuff themselves (<this is as much as anything likely driven by the supply of wood being nearer to the folks building the stuff than any other economic factor).
     
  19. Barbarian

    Barbarian New Member

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    Clinch To reduce hammered fingers you may wish to invest in a rampin. I have had less instances of dancing around swearing since I bought one.
     
  20. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    Alright, Like gunny said, "the only stupid question is the one you don't ask".
    I have to ask, what the heck is a "rampin"? :confused: