well it is done. The hot hive has mellow eggs...

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by Gypsi, Aug 4, 2012.

  1. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I saw beautiful comb with beautiful honey, which I can't harvest, because I've been feeding. But just gorgeous. A deep, the broodnest partly backfilled. Went through it yesterday til it got too hot. No eggs, some capped and large uncapped brood.

    Talked to my bee mentor and went back in today at noon.
    The queen has been in the 1st super. On the 5th frame I found larva almost small enough to rear a queen from, and on the 9th about a dozen eggs mixed with other stages of larva. Didn't see the queen, just made sure I didn't roll her, drop her or move her to the hot hive.

    I took 8 queen cups down in the hot hive, at least 5 had viable queen larva. For now those larva are in isopropyl alcohol in my fridge - can they be used to make queen pheromone? Stuck my medium frame in the center of the broodnest in the deep box. Closed up and gave them a quart of 1:1 and part of a pollen substitute patty mixed with honey (that had some actual pollen in it). Hopefully hot no more. They had calmed down somewhat when I took the feed back a couple of hours later, still followed me back to the front yard, but turned back before the porch. (as opposed to haunting it.)

    If this works, I'm hoping to move my cutout queen to a nuc, steal more eggs from the same vsh hive, and set her bees to queen-making. She's very nice, her bees are very nice, but not nearly as productive.

    I'd like to produce enough mated queens for my own hives and maybe have a couple to spare. I realize this is a tricky thing for a beginner. But the drones from the hot hive should be pure cordovan. A mellow breed, right?

    Gypsi
     
  2. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

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    How do you think beginners graduate to the next stage? If you're ready to consider it, you're ready to try it.
    Upward and onward! :thumbsup: You've got nothing to lose. :grin:
     

  3. bee stung

    bee stung New Member

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    at least 5 had viable queen larva. For now those larva are in isopropyl alcohol in my fridge - can they be used to make queen pheromone

    I'm fairly sure
    queen pheromone comes after the queen comes out of her queen cell and may not be real good til after she meets the drones ,
    others will chime in with there idea on it
     
  4. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    well, it was worth a try. I forgot to keep the body of the old queen. barely remembered with these.

    Thank you.
     
  5. Daniel Y

    Daniel Y New Member

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    Gypsi, you gotta get past all those mistakes sooner or later.

    I am looking at doing the same thing but a shortage of hardware has put a damper on my adventure. I am in the shop making frames nightly. slow going but it is enjoyable. And no fraems are not worth making I just have more time and scrap lumber than I have money and good sense right now. 5 more deep bodies are in the making. this will give me 4 hives total when I am done.

    Anway some of my deeper thought on this queen making issue. Let's suppose you make up a nuc in order to rear a new queen. What do your really stand to loose? You have the same frames drawn by the same bees you already have. they are populated by the same bees that woudl have lived in the parent colony produced by your existing queen. any new frames of eggs will be produced by that same queen that would have been laying them anyway. You loose the effort it takes for the bees to make a queen.

    In short you still have the same original hive and the same production from it except now a small part of it is in a separate box. At worst they fail to make a queen and all gets returned to the original hive. The real impact is so small as to be insignificant. And you stand to gain an additional queen to increase production of bee population.

    Looking at it this way takes the nerves out of it for me. Like I said the only thing holding me back right now is lack of boxes, frames and foundation. My one hive did much better this year than I expected. they have three deeps and a med super tied up. And there is a flow on. Ah it is rough to have it so good.
     
  6. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Daniel,

    If you were closer I'd swap you medium boxes for some honey. I've been feeding since my nucs came in. Bought a bunch of woodware early this year, have it all neatly built and locked in a shed. Except for some frames anyway. I have enough wood for more hives, question is, will I have the rainfall, and how many hives can I protect if they decide to spray for west nile virus. It's always something.
     
  7. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Well if I can't get a queen made, I can do a combine. With my worries about the potential for mosquito spraying, reducing hive count makes sense - fewer to cover. And I only see one queen cell on the frame that I gave them eggs on. AND it isn't where I saw the eggs.....
     
  8. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    as the summer heat builds and we go into the fall of the year almost any cell building method will produce fewer and fewer cells. optimally one or two is all you need and often time if you see one there are one or two others also present.

    mating of virgins is another matter with mating time this time of year often being limited by the heat. you do however need to 'lag' the time frame and think about what condition will look like 2 weeks after you start the process (time from egg to ready to mate virgin).

    I typically do a bit of grafting during the latter summer to coincide with queen cells coming off at or around the first to middle of September (often times drifting into the latter part of the month). this strategy coincides with both the air temperature somewhat cooling and increased possibilities of rainfall.
     
  9. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, I knew I needed to add brood to the hot hive - there were noticeably fewer bees targeting me when I added the eggs on the 5th, and again when I checked on the queen cell process last Monday. With a prospective hatch date of maybe the 22nd, I worried they would be robbed out before she got mated. So I opened this hive today, and my strongest vsh hive - the one across the street, the one that I believe was launching attacks on my weak hives today. Stole a frame of brood and nurse bees from the strong hive, gave it to my now queenless hot hive. And discovered, while in there, the queen cup was gone. I ordered a queen on Monday the 13th. She will be here in the morning. The hot hive gets her.

    I'll combine the weaker hives as soon as I know that one is stable, for now I really reduced their entrances today when some attempted robbery was going on. And I may nuc the spare queen for a long-postponed cutout that is really too late in the year...

    wow. That was a bit of work in the heat.
     
  10. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

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    Be very cautious with the introduction of the new queen. Hot hives aren't the easiest ones to accept a new queen. Try to work the hive as quietly and calmly as you can when introducing the Queen cage. Give a quick re-read on how to introduce a queen to a hive before you start the job and follow all the rules to ensure her safety. :rules:
    :thumbsup:
     
  11. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    a snip...
    With my worries about the potential for mosquito spraying

    tecumseh:
    perhaps it is just my own way but really what good does it do to worry about something over which you have no control?
     
  12. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    another snip...
    Stole a frame of brood and nurse bees from the strong hive

    tecumseh:
    I most often call this 'leveling'.... either food or brood and sometimes both. most times in the hotter months I tend to brush off the adults. since it appears you are set up to not obtain a honey crop this year leveling of both feed and brood should be continued on some regular schedule* until the smaller hive has a sufficient population to defend itself.

    *you really don't want to overwhelm a small hive with either feed or brood since this can create it's own set of problems with brood being neglected and raising the possibilities of robbing in those internal areas of the hive which the bees can not cover and guard. it also increases the possibilities of shb and wax moth problems.
     
  13. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, the queen is in. I opted NOT to remove any of the sugar, only the cork. I totally disrupted the hive going through to be sure I didn't have any eggs or young larva to indicate that the missing queen cup had produced a hatched queen.
    I found I did not have a place in the deep near the nursebees and other brood that could accommodate her wooden cage horizontally. With the possibility of a worker dying and blocking the opening, I place horizontally so that if an attendant dies she can still get out. I put the top (9 frame) medium super back on, put her horizontally on top of the lower frames, and then the runny pollen patty I'd put in a jelly lid in the gap too. They are so busy cleaning up pollen sub with honey mix I think it will distract them for awhile. Will post pic when I get done reducing real estate on other hives. Got clouds coming in.

    And no, no honey crop this year. I had to start feeding around the time my nucs showed up. Got 40 liquid ounces out of the beetree when I moved it.

    The comb is a mess in the top box, not much comb, was rubber banded in, but it has honey in it, and I will tidy it up when I go in to check on the queen in a couple of days.
     
  14. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I checked today and the queen has been released. Hive is much calmer, but then every bee that has hatched in the last week or 2 didn't originate from this hive. I rubberbanded collapsed comb in the top box (as threatened when I added the queen) and they were not happy that I was messing with their hive, but I didn't pick up any stings, and only about 3 stalker bees followed me around afterward. Figure they were older workers, different DNA.
    So as far as I can tell this is now a hive of VSH workers with an italian queen. And soon I need to move them to the new hive stand. Well as soon as I'm sure my wood ware will put up with the distance between pipes on that stand. Pics to follow.
     
  15. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Taming the wild hive

    I have a 3rd pipe and some more cinderblocks. I make my own bottom boards out of plywood, and I am a little concerned that only 2 pipes might not provide enough support, but a 16 inch block won't really accommodate 3 pipes and have them be stable. I want the pipes so I can grease them and beat the ants back some more. Fairly sure there is an ant nest in the pallet hive stand to the left. That or in the sbb on the nuc.
    Hive_standAug20_2012.jpg
    The hive on the stand was across the street on a high stand until last night. I've scooped up a couple of cups of bees in a nuc this afternoon, and after dark tonight, to get them rejoined to their hive. My neighbor can't mow half his lawn. That 10 feet or 10 mile rule is accurate. Ok, back to the hot hive I requeened. It's the one on top of the trailer tool box far from the other hives. (well 25 to 40 feet anyway, never measured it.)
    hothive_attachedcomb.jpg hothive_combcollapse.jpg What happens when they chew off the rubber bands without attaching comb to frames. And what I fixed. Part of the frames were just gorgeous, the rest, well, the hive was too hot to remedy before I took the queen out. Now they have wax workers from all the new brood, and I'm feeding more regularly, and a bit of flow is coming. And they have a new queen. My first italian. Hope she's good.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2012
  16. efmesch

    efmesch Active Member

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    Those pipes look good and strong to me, If you want to really test them, stand on them and see how they respond. So long as you keep the isssue of balance in mind, I would venture to say you could even put another hive between the blocks and another two, one on each end, past the cinder blocks. But that's an issue for the coming year when your Italian queen proves her real worth and gives you material for expansion. Things look and sound great. :thumbsup:
     
  17. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The pipes are strong. It is the weight distribution on the bottom board that concerns me. I'm not buying hardwood or pine bottom boards, I've been building my own out of plywood with split 1x2 sides if they are solid, I think vertical 1x2 on my screen bottom boards. With all of the weight of the hive resting on 4 points, where pipe contacts 1x2, I am concerned. I don't want a collapse. Anyone a really good engineer here?
     
  18. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Saw my italian queen today. She is marked, makes it SO much easier, but it was her big belly I saw first anyway. And I saw her first eggs, so she is laying. The hive wasn't real happy with me. I wasn't happy with the number of shb I saw and squished, so I closed it up, went in and got a beetle blaster loaded with oil, opened it back up, and put my blaster in. all squished bees are named Thelma and apologized to profusely. Gave them a fresh jar of feed, they still have pollen patty AND are bringing in pollen. Only the one frame of eggs, but at least she has begun, and they still have capped worker brood from my last addition. I need to move their hive to the hive stand. Ten feet increments done at night? (I added a 3rd pipe on separate cinderblocks to the hive stand. Just for safety)
     
  19. ablanton

    ablanton New Member

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    This is my first year, so I am no expert, but I have heard from many sources that pollen patties are SHB magnets. If you see the girls bringing in pollen, they probably don't need patties. If you choose to use patties, I have been told not to put more than will be eaten in 24 hours. Apparently, SHB love to lay eggs in them.

    I tried patties back in the spring, but my girls didn't seem too interested so I quit using them.
     
  20. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Well the first bunch of patties (tiny ones, about one square inch by 1/4 inch) were gone in a couple of days. This last bunch, 2x2 by 1/4 - aren't going as fast. I will pull them out and freeze them maybe?