what a mess

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by Zookeep, Aug 20, 2012.

  1. Zookeep

    Zookeep Active Member

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    my extractor arrived today and my 1st thought was cone-o-bees, 5 nine inch boxes high and last time I looked 2 were capped off totally, so went right to it and crud, very top box I found worker brood in it, the next box down was new so only about half is pulled comb and saw some eggs, ok now down to the third box, yep, worker brood and theres a queen, a big fat golden 1, strange cause I know the queen in this hive was totally black, so I have no clue how but they raised a queen in the upper with no brood or so I thought, ok between the 3rd and the 2nd box I have a excluder, so pulled that off and took a look in the 2nd and 1st boxes and theres tone of brood and yet another fat golden queen, only thing I can think of is they decided to replace the black queen and raised more then 1 cell, 1 queen went up through the excluder and out through the top entrance to mate and another used the bottom, mom was black so these are not mother and daughter, right now there might be 6 frames in the total of 50 I could extract, what I have is a stack of 5 brood boxes and no honey supers, Im mad:mad:
     
  2. DonMcJr

    DonMcJr New Member

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    Man that sucks for Honey this year but you can seperate them and have 2 hives for next year and more honey next year!
     

  3. blueblood

    blueblood New Member

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    Ah, sorry Zoo. What did you do after finding this? Queen down and excluder on? I guess it depends on how much brood you are talking about.
     
  4. bee stung

    bee stung New Member

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    the girls will always show you that they are in charge and that they will do what they want
     
  5. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

    Old fella I know always uses excluders, and a couple of years ago he went with fairly large upper entrances. He claimed the bees were packing in nectar faster than he had ever seen. He also lets his hive swarm quite freely (makes no effort to ward it off really) and usually has pretty good overwintering success too (except this last winter).
    Anyway, I went to help him pull his honey and just about every one of the 7 hives had queens above the excluders :shock: and the boxes below were empty!
    My guess was virgin queens followed the majority of the bees and used the upper entrances too. Another weird thing was seeing all of the dead drones with their heads stuck in the excluders. :sad: Go figure.
     
  6. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    YAA for top entrances. My guess is they both left from the bottom and one came back in the top.


    I suppose you could sell one hive and buy some honey>>>> :thumbsup: :lol:
     
  7. Omie

    Omie New Member

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    Just because i put a box on doesn't mean they are going to fill it with honey!
     
  8. Zookeep

    Zookeep Active Member

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    well least I end up with a double deep hive and a triple deep both in great shape
     
  9. jim314

    jim314 New Member

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    Positive thinking is necessary with beekeeping I think. Something bad happens, I've learned something, something good happens, I've learned something.:thumbsup:
     
  10. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Well 2 queens and 2 hives, not a bad deal to my mind. But I just don't get honey. I get a sugar bill, but I still love my bees.
     
  11. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    a snip..
    1 queen went up through the excluder and out through the top entrance to mate and another used the bottom

    tecumseh:
    unless the queen looks extremely small and as long as the excluder is sound (has no defects) neither a mated queen nor a virgin should be able to go thru the excluder. this however does not prevent a newly mated queen from flying back to a hive and entering thru the top entrance.

    most times when this happens here (queen above and below an excluder) I myself suspect that I have overlooked eggs in frames that I place above the excluder. it should also be mentioned that newly mated queens can be a bit ditzy as far as location is concern and will on occasion fly back to a box that is not their own. if these boxes are without a queen they are often let in with no problem.
     
  12. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    I ran across something like this not long ago. Adam Foster Collins was visiting and we went through some hives in a yard. Some were in the process of requeening (splits).
    After checking my notes on two hives near each other (one with a new virgin, the other hadn't been successful) we found that the situations in both hives completely reversed :confused:
    I thought perhaps I have screwed up with my notes (hives #15 and #16) but I am now inclined to think perhaps what might have happened is more along the lines of what tecumseh has suggested.
     
  13. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    I tend to see this more often at the commercial level Perry..... that is with my seasonal job down the road in Navasota. there they use cell finishers and it is not that uncommon to have a newly mated virgin return to a box and enter the top of a hive where several frames of queen cells are (or perhaps were is the proper word here?) being finished. it is not so uncommon to have every cell (often times several hundred) to be ruined in this manner.
     
  14. tommyt

    tommyt New Member

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    sorry it happened
    I don't like to use excluders and have to think,
    If you had not used one
    You may have gotten some honey
     
  15. blueblood

    blueblood New Member

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    The more I read this thread the more relieved I trusted the bees and left the excluders in the shed. I have not had any problems with brood in the supers and honey is in the bank. I don't care for top entrances either. Just one way in and one way out.
     
  16. srvfantexasflood

    srvfantexasflood New Member

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    Perhaps the problem is not with the queen excluder, but with bottom and top entrances? What is the reasoning behind having two entrances?
     
  17. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    I use both most of the time. Winter for ventilation purposes, and summer for the same reason as well as relieving congestion , allowing foragers to drop off their loads without having to move it through the brood rearing area.
     
  18. Eddy Honey

    Eddy Honey New Member

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    I wonder if you could place another excluder immediately under the top entrance :???:?
     
  19. srvfantexasflood

    srvfantexasflood New Member

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    I understand the need for venting in the winter. The health of the hive depends upon that. A temporary shim will suffice. I guess you must be willing to accept the chance that this type of incident can occur if you have a top and bottom entrance.
     
  20. riverbee

    riverbee Active Member

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    i like tec's answer and post:
    "unless the queen looks extremely small and as long as the excluder is sound (has no defects) neither a mated queen nor a virgin should be able to go thru the excluder. this however does not prevent a newly mated queen from flying back to a hive and entering thru the top entrance.

    most times when this happens here (queen above and below an excluder) I myself suspect that I have overlooked eggs in frames that I place above the excluder. it should also be mentioned that newly mated queens can be a bit ditzy as far as location is concern and will on occasion fly back to a box that is not their own. if these boxes are without a queen they are often let in with no problem.
    "

    i do use wood frame, metal excluders, depends on the hive, and i also use top and bottom entrances. i would agree with what tec said regarding excluders placed above frames i have overlooked eggs in. have done so myself many times, or when i have placed new frames in the super for the bees to draw out, the excluder does not go on until the frames are drawn. sometimes the bees, and queen get ahead of me, and she starts laying in that super. i just place the excluder on underneath, and ensure the queen is not trapped above, the bees will take care of whatever brood is there and will revert it to honey storage.

    i had to laugh at tec's description of newly mated queens being a bit 'ditzy'. this is very true, they can be. a number of times, i myself have had queens that weren't mine, appear in my hives .....mine are very dark and the queens i found were very light in color, and one year one queen was marked :shock:....i don't mark my queens. this year i had a divide i took to my suburb res. the queen stopped laying and the bees were ornery. i decided to move the hive back to the rural res and combine it with another. i went through the hive to find my queen several times before moving it. she was not there. a few days later i moved the hive, set the deep on the hive to be combined, and went through the frames again to ensure i had not missed the queen..........surprise........i found a very beautiful golden young queen in that hive, and she stuck out amongst the dark bees. i scratched my head, how did i miss her? i suspect either i missed her by not examining the failing hive sides or bottom board, or she flew in after i had gone through the hive looking for the original queen.

    i thnk zookeep the only thing i would add to tec's post is checking the supers, or in your case, deeps, every 7 days or so. when i stack honey supers on, with or without excluders, i check them almost every week, especially if i have a number of them on.....to check progress, problems, or in your case laying queens.

    this is very disappointing, but on the bright side MORE BEES AND QUEENS! :grin: