When to pinch a queen in hot hive.

Discussion in 'Beekeeping 101' started by Yankee11, May 12, 2013.

  1. Yankee11

    Yankee11 New Member

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    I have a cutout that we did back at the end of March. We did not get the queen. This hive was very aggressive and I figured it was just because they were queenless. They have since raised a new queen and she id laying good. Goos capped brood pattern now.

    I went this hive yesterday. Beautiful warm sunny day. They ate be up. ignoring smoke and followed me a long way from hive.

    I know I need to give this hive some amount of time for these older bees to die off and the new bees to hatch and grow to see what their attitudes will be like.

    How much time do I give them before I decide to replace this new queen with a nicer one?

    Or am I even on the right track?
     
  2. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd give them 3 weeks from when she started laying. I did this in late summer 2012
     

  3. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    Something must be in the air? hives that i've never had problems with in the past, seem to be waiting for me.:shock: Jack
     
  4. Gypsi

    Gypsi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    warm winter, short on stores, a bit of african northward drift? (or german? or russian?)
     
  5. Daniel Y

    Daniel Y New Member

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    Here is my math. From the moment the queen is removed it is 21 days (3 weeks) Until the last of her brood even emerges. IT is during that time a new queen could get reared and mated. Adjust replacement to your situation. if a mated laying queen is added as replacemnt day 22 is the first day the new attitude will begin to emerge for example. if it is a virgin queen it iwll be more like day 29 or longer. If the ebes must rear a queen of their own it iwll take 16 days at best to do so and still another week or more for her to mate. It will be 21 days from the tie she lays her first egg for bees with a different temperament to emerge. So this creates a window of between 21 and 50 days for their to even be a start to replacing the population.

    But replacements are not so much the concern as elimination of the old population. And that is a bit more predictable. we have 21 days in which the old brood will stll emerge. and durign the summer I give them an expected life span of 6 weeks for a total of 9 weeks from the time the old queen is removed until her offspring are no longer in the hive.

    You say the queen was not retrieved back in March so I will say mid march or almost 8 weeks ago. (6 weeks ago was the first of April) so you should be fairly well down the path of purging the old population of bees. With a lack of a queen it may be true that more bees remained in the hive making a new queen preserving the colony. Foraging is reduced in the interest of overall survival etc. One the new queen is up and established you may see an abundance of foragers kick in and the agression drop off rather quickly as those foragers are lost.

    Also keep in mind that the period of a bees life that is spent as a guard is in the latter portion of their life. You could still have a hive that is made up of 100% old bees as guards. This making it appear to still be an completely aggressive hive while in fact your entire mass of bees are actually more docile but still nurse and housekeeping bees. I would allow another week or two at least and then see if I notice a decline in the aggression as these possible oldest bees of the old brood pas through the guard and forager stages of life.
     
  6. Yankee11

    Yankee11 New Member

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    I went back and checked my records.

    Cut out was done on March 17th. So at that point they became queenless. They has to raise a new queen which hatched out on April 6th. So give her another 10 days to get mated and start laying. That puts it around April 16th. Give her another week or so to really get laying and we have had some really goofy cold weather over the last 4 weeks.

    So, the new queens brood should really just now be starting to hatch out. And all those older bees should start dying off rapidly.

    I think you are right, I'll give them a few more weeks and see If I see a change.

    I had them all over my veil. There is strip of woods behind my hives about 50ft thick, then opens up to a huge field. I walked to the other side of the tree line into the field BEHIND the hives and they were still after me. Ended up having to kill a few to get them away from me.

    My only other concern is I don't know the genetics of this hive as is was a cutout, and they raised their new queen from this same hive. It may have been a very aggressive hive to begin with. We'll see.

    I'll let ya know in few weeks if they settle down.

    Thanks
     
  7. bamabww

    bamabww New Member

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    Yankee11, very timely thread for me as I have a similar problem. The hive of mine that has always been the most docile has become the most aggressive when inspected. So much that they have backed me off the last two times I've looked in on them, even with smoke. My veil was being dive bombed continually so much that it was distracting. I've never had anything like this in my 4 years of beekeeping. And like you, they will follow me almost 100 yards back to the shed / barn area.

    I've called a local queen supplier to get a replacement just to try something like you have suggested.
     
  8. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    I now think it was the odd weather we were having, the docile hives that turned mean are acting better now:thumbsup:. I also think i left to much honey on the hives i found with swarm cells, they were covered from top to bottom with bees. Nothing was blooming (Maples and Willows budding out) and very few flying days, so they had nothing else to do but raise brood and prepare to swarm.:roll: Jack