Wire Foundation or Not?

Discussion in 'General Beekeeping' started by brooksbeefarm, Nov 25, 2013.

  1. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    Club member ask me why do you cross wire your deep wax foundation frames that i use for my brood boxes.:???: I said because that's the way i've always done:cool:,he said he just uses bobby pins on the sides of the frames to hold the foundation in that he doesn't extract honey from the brood box so they don't need to be wired? Well i have several new deeps and building more that i will need to put wax foundation in and what he said made sense:roll:, sure would speed things up and save alot of time and work. I was wondering if any of you do this and if not, why not?? Jack
    PS. No, i won't go the stinky plastic route.,:lol:
     
  2. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    I've done it both ways.

    If it gets drawn out in a couple weeks, either way is fine. If the flow stops and they don't draw it, you better have it wired. It will curl, bend, flare, and fall. It's worse than no frames.
     

  3. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    Holding the edges in line wont keep the centre of the panel from going sideways if there is a lot of inherent curviness to the vertical wires. Those nine or ten wires come off a roll in the factory and get pressed into the wax. Sometimes there is more or less bend tension in them but the package of cold foundation presses everything flat. When it gets hung in a frame in a hot hive it may try to go into a cupcake! Every batch is not the same so the recorded mileage varies!
    If you put it in when the bees are a bit bored they will often chew all around the bobby pins. Same thing with the designed pins which sometimes are not long enough to reach to catch a vertical wire but only engage the wax. At least the designed pins heads are flush with the outside of the frames and dont drag and catch on things.

    The centre of the whole frame of foundation is the brood area and if the centreline of the the midrib is off you get uneven cell depth or uneven surfaces. I have tried using only 2 of the 4 crosswires on deep frames and have had less than full satisfaction with it. The wire is cheap.

    Edit; I see Iddee got off his post while I was composing and two fingering mine. I have some pictures showing the vertical wires pulling away from the cross wiring. I like to get a feel for which way the spring may be in the wire and put my wires on that side. They can push a bit but they dont suck worth a durn. One poster on another forum says he alternates his wires one on one side of the foundation, the next on 'tother side etc. Some foundatiion is baaaad!
     
  4. pistolpete

    pistolpete New Member

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    I didn't wire my foundation my first year and it was quite a mess. Because of the bellies in the foundation, some frames ended up getting drawn extra deep and others not at all. This is a real headache at inspection time.
     
  5. ApisBees

    ApisBees Active Member

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    You never know, some times the bees can find an unexpected flow and will congest the brood chamber with too much honey or refuse to go up into the honey supers if it is undrawn comb of an queen excluder is used. Running the honey bound brood frames thru the extractor may be the best way to get the honey out of the frames so they can be given to the queen to lay in. If this is done it is nice to know that the frames are wired properly.
     
  6. Crofter

    Crofter New Member

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    This how I like my foundation cross wired. strong enough for a canoe seat! That is my wife's handiwork; she does beeframes too and shames me for speed!
     

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  7. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    A canoe and me don't get along to well, seems like there always on top of the water and i'm always looking up at them.:roll: Jack
     
  8. tecumseh

    tecumseh New Member

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    a snip...
    he said he just uses bobby pins on the sides of the frames to hold the foundation in that he doesn't extract honey from the brood box so they don't need to be wired?

    tecumseh...
    I am not certain Jack that you are talking about pure foundation or foundation + ripple wire??

    in either case I could point him text in my very old abc/xyz that would suggest to your fellow club member that they need to reconsider their thinking. crofter points out one limitation above + with no wire any frames that gets loaded down heavily with honey (quite likely in the outermost locations in a box) will create sagging. distortions (Crofter + mine own) will almost invariable result in this comb fairly quickly being transformed into drone sized cell < not such a bad thing if you want to rear lots of drones or trap them as one means of varroa control.

    How I do it > I originally used plain foundation + four horizontal wires and now sometimes I use foundation + ripple wire and two horizontal wires.

    I am hopin' Jack was never in the sailin' navy!
     
  9. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    I use ripple wire foundation for brood and med. honey supers and thin none wired foundation strips for comb honey. I have only used two horizontal wires in the middle of both brood and honey frames and never had a problem.:thumbsup: I'm making several new brood and med. honey supers and when he said he just used bobby pins, i thought that sounds good and would save me alot of time and work.I think i'll stick to my old way, besides i think my wife likes it when i'm in the shop all day.:lol: Thanks to all of you for the input. Jack
    PS. No Navy for me tec., back in those days you joined the service or got drafted.:eek: I ask grandpa what he would join if he was me,he said you can do what you want to, but i always thought i could walk farther than i could fly or swim.:???: Made sense to me.:lol:
     
  10. lazy shooter

    lazy shooter New Member

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    I'm confused, AGAIN. My hives are full of wood frames with rite cell in them. I bought them in that configuration. I don't think there is wire in them. Is that OK?

    Jack snip:
    From your comments to riverbee and what you generally write about your family, I am sure your wife enjoys some quiet time. :):)

    Thanks for your continued writing of your varied experiences about bee keeping. Reading the books is great, but as a beginner, it is nice to hear real of real anecdotal experiences.
     
  11. brooksbeefarm

    brooksbeefarm New Member

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    RiverBee is a good sport, she can give as good as she receives,:thumbsup: Seems like people take things to serious any more when your just having fun, as old as i am i can kind of tell who can take it and who can't. I think riverbee and me have got the best of perry, he doesn't post much any more.:lol: Jack
     
  12. Iddee

    Iddee New Member

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    lazy, wiring is for wax foundation, not plastic. You are fine, if any plastic is fine.
    Us old timers, past 100, like jack, don't like plastic. :thumbsup: :razz:
     
  13. PerryBee

    PerryBee New Member

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    C'mon Jack, neither would I. They do sell the un-stinky variety if you look hard enough buddy! :wink: